AIBU - problems with antisemitism amongst NHS medical staff?

I don't know and never will but her being young and possibly flooded with the type of things my friends have been from some of the more extreme members of her community or social media it has made me wonder. I understand that may wrong to you but you have to be in my shoes to get it probably. Didn't put in a complaint saying what I was worried about because no proof and she might well have been to innocent in that regard. She was investigated for her error though because it was quite a serious thing.

It can be general considered whatever but that doesn't make that accusation truth. It just means people have limited understanding and have not bothered to ask zionists what it is they believe in.

You're extraordinarily naïve if you think the UK hasn't become a place where being publicly Jewish is a dangerous thing to do. UK Gov stats (excl Metropolitan Police which if included seems likely to make it worse) shows 117 hate crimes per 100,000 people against Jews, 13 per 100,000 against Muslims, 2 per 100,000 against Hindus and 0 per 100,000 against Christians. In that context your "hope that any Jewish patient can have faith in their fellow Brits that they can hold two truths in their mind" is extraordinarily insulting - when you are being medically treated your are particularly vulnerable and its extremely clear that Jewish people who fear how they may be treated in those circumstances are not "fragile in their beliefs". They recognise how extreme the UK has become.

Did they find it to be antisemitic in their investigation? That’s an extremely serious allegation to make. I obviously hope you are wrong, and you even acknowledge you might be. presuming you are feel very sorry for a young Muslim doctor being accused’s of attempted murder rooted in, essentially, what I can only conclude is a belief all Muslims are evil and want to kill you. Which is a pretty Islamophobic view to hold.

honestly, I am saddened for both you and her, for Jews and Muslims and that the world has got to this stage. I am myself an atheist and am really struggling to see any benefit to religion when you hear about all the hate it seems to generate - in all directions. But maybe it’s just humanity in general.

Yes this is exactly the issue with it

People are not mind readers, they can only go on what they see. Therefore if they associate a badge or flag with something negative or violent for their race/ethnicity/religion that is worry for them. What the person actually means by wearing it is totally irrelevant

Totally agree no religion should be free from scrutiny, same goes for non religious ideologies too.

Your determination to not understand what the meaning of Zionism is to the majority of Jews and non Jews for that matter means you don't understand Zionism.

You do understand an area of political Zionism probably but that isn't what most zionists believe. It is just a small percentage of Zionists have made their Zionism into something else.

You can believe whatever you like about Zionism but it doesn't change what Zionists believe about Zionism. At the end of the day people know what they believe far better than strangers that have not sort to learn about them.

So I know about a kind of Zionism but not your Zionism and people believe in different Zionism because there’s a Jewish Zionism and then a political Zionism which not many people believe in.

ok…. Well I was referring to the political and nationalist concept of Zionism that’s been used as a political justification for decades for war and genocide. If that’s not your Zionism (Jewish right to self determination) then that’s fine, as we are talking about two different things and I have not commented on your Zionism.

I hate that. Nobody should be forced to do anything symbolic if the don't want too. Felt tbe same about the taking of the knee. Yes it was positive in some ways but it became an obligatory thing and if some didn't do it with there team or whatever they got abuse for it. That meant to me the meaning became lost, you can't force respect or it becomes just another thing to do.

The fact their are Jewish may even be obvious from their clothes.

Have you met many Jewish people?
I have, and in the vast majority of cases, you wouldn’t have had a clue they were Jewish just by looking at their clothes.

Also, why would their religion be on the admission form? It's entirely optional. Many Jewish people aren't even religious, but they can still be targeted by prejudice.

Please reread the post you have just link too

I did not tell anyone involved in investigating her what I was worried about. She was automatically investigating because she gave me a drug that could do me serious harm. I didn't instigate the investigation the hospital did.

You deliberately have made up a lot of stuff in your head that isn't in my post or true

I explained my experience earlier and my worry. You have decided to abuse that for your satisfaction I can only imagine. Think you owe me an apology.

No, I didn’t make anything up. I know you didn’t report her. You made the allegation here. It’s extremely serious even if not made formally - alleging a Muslim doctor was trying to murder or seriously harm you just for being Jewish by giving you incorrect medicine. I was enquiring about the outcome of their investigation.

ive not abused anything. As I said, I am sad for you both. It’s a terrible state of affairs that you feel so targeted you believe it was on purpose, and that she is being accused of what you are accusing her off. Or even, the very remote possibility, that you are right.

So no, there is no need for me to apologise.

I am saddened for both you and her, for Jews and Muslims and that the world has got to this stage. I am myself an atheist and am really struggling to see any benefit to religion when you hear about all the hate it seems to generate - in all directions. But maybe it’s just humanity in general.

I am not religious, I am Jewish because I was born Jewish

Jews and Muslims can get on very well together because we have some very basic things in common and often similar life experiences. Most of us in my part of London don't have the hate people think is going on. Israel too is a good example of Jews and Muslims living, working and being friends. However people don't tend to look at that side of Israel. Sorry to derail their but don't feel sad for Jews and Muslims in general because a lot of us are fine. Feel bad about judgement on people you have never met and a conflict that is never going to be settled by people abusing each other on the internet for kicks.

If you don't want people to miss understand you then just say Israel government or governments. Talking about Zionism is always going to get you into a conversation you obviously don't want to have ten thousand times because most of us don't. To quite someone earlier "we can't be arsed"

I get I write in a muddle sometimes but that is the way I write. However you obviously did know what I meant so don't get rude

I disagree, you owe me an apology. The fact you don't understand why is something rather special

Going on about me doing her wrong on a anonymous forum makes you an apologist

You have a lot of sympathy for an anonymous doctor who did actually do me harm, I walked into the GP surgery with some small issues and what she did put me in hospital for goodness sake.

Unbelievable lack of basic human empathy you are showing towards the victim but oh much empathy for doctor that caused harm to her patient.

You accused this doctor of trying to seriously harm you on this forum and the information you have given seems to show that you are basing that off of nothing more than a feeling. If she wasn't mulslim what would you have assumed her motives be? Im sorry the doctor made a terrible mistake. I hope you were able to recover and that you got some answers from the formal investigation.

I’ve lost count of how many times the International Association of Genocide Scholars has been mentioned on here, and how many times people explained why this organisation really isn’t the authority its name suggests it is.

Anyone can join the IAGS for a yearly fee, no academic credentials required. According to their own website, their members include students, journalists, artists and activists.
Out of 500 members only 129 voted on the genocide resolution, 108 in favour. Yet, people keep referencing them as some sort of undisputed authority.

Are you in Gaza? Because if you’re not, the rain analogy really doesn’t work.
Anyone can look out a window to see rain. That’s not the same as assessing a complex geopolitical conflict thousands of miles away via social media and news feeds.

Except the comments in question (as listed in the op) were not simply about Netanyahu, so your Putin analogy doesn’t really work.

The comments op listed in her first post weren’t simply ‘anti genocide’.

I really don’t think this thread is about people being ‘anti genocide’ or criticising the current Israeli government.

I think workers are entitled to their political views.

I also think they don't come with you when you are giving medical care. You give the best care to everyone and you don't discuss politics there. That means wearing political symbols.

There are tricky questions, like what about mandated religious clothing? But I think the principle is clear in general.

Where things become difficult is the extent to which talking about your political views outside of work, and including on social media, is restricted due to your job.

Because health care and other staff deserve to be able to participate in legal political discourse.

I'm not sure what the answer is with that. I think it may end up getting worked out in the courts.

It’s not even the UN’s opinion, just the opinion of the three people who constitute that specific Commission of Inquiry.

This is frightening. Some Palestinians are taught to hate Jews from birth, likely the terrorist Hamas supporters, and some Jews are taught to hate Palestinians from birth. Settlers in the West Bank are a clear example of illegal, racist and hate filled individuals who are active genocide supporters. Many are no different from the racist, hate filled and active genocide Hamas supporters. The hatred on both sides is real and awful amongst the limited group of extremists. The settlers are clearly ideological extremists.

If you see no difference between the Palestinian population, and the people who want them to have a safe home country free from mass killing, and Hamas supporters then that's quite scary. Civilians are not terrorists (on either side). Your view that all Palestinians hate Jews is racist and not compatible with a peaceful society. I hope that you don't work in the NHS because I would be terrified to be treated by you if I was a Palestinian given you've automatically decided that all Palestinians are hate filled people looking to hurt Jews. As we've established on this thread, no one deserves to be fearful when being treated in a hospital.

Political symbols in hospitals should be banned including both Palestinian and Israeli flags.

I don’t have more sympathy for her, I’ve repeatedly explained my position and you trying to twist that and call me names isn’t going to change that.

I am sorry you received poor medical care and were unwell. My point is that it is pretty sad state of affairs when you are accusing her of what you are on nothing - from what you yourself have explained - but a feeling, the fact she made a serious error and the fact she’s Muslim. Obviously and as I also already said if your feeling is right that would clearly also be shocking but it just seems incredibly unlikely and you’ve not really explained why other that feeling/ religion/ current climate you believe it. If there was more to it that I somehow missed, feel free to clarify, but if this is going to continue with you calling me names and demanding an apology for showing just a little scepticism that a doctor was trying to kill your just because she was Muslim then this exchange probably can’t meaningfully go any further.

The threads moved on a bit. Now apparently just being Palestinian would be an antisemitic in itself. Wonder what any Palestinian doctor or nurse should do to not offend anyone there….

my comment still stands - if you read the subsequent ones I’ve made clear that people should be entitled to receive medical care and not feel threatened and political symbols are not appropriate for front line care for that reason. Neither is antisemitism- obviously. People are however entitled to have their own political opinions (not antisemitism) outside work.