AIBU - problems with antisemitism amongst NHS medical staff?

Zionism isn't just politically driven, it's also driven by religion and a fundamental belief in self determination. To me and you, that means the right to live.

Well lots of political ideology can be justified by or connected to religion if you try hard enough. Zionism is generally considered a political nationalist movement that’s been used to justify a lot of absolutely appalling treatment of other humans.

We won't hold our breath. If anybody feels threatened by a public servant, that compromises the fundamental principles of equality. It doesn't matter whether that threat is direct or indirect.

That's a long winded way of you trying to justify discrimination of an ethno religion. That group has a right to self determination.

Edited: deleted word.

Sadly, people also die in wars. It’s always tragic, but it doesn’t necessarily mean genocide.

I haven't read the entire thread, because Im finding it so dispiriting. I will go back over it later. For now I just want to ask WTF is going on with all these posters queueing up to dismiss a report they clearly haven't read.

I have read the Mann report. I also work in the NHS. And I have Jewish heritage. Im not going to try to prove to anyone here that the NHS has an antisemitism problem because if you dont believe Lord Mann you won't believe me.

But read the report and you will find plenty of evidence. Plus a key finding that many NHS managers dont really understand antisemitism as racism and so dont handle it as they would other forms of racism. So the report urges equal treatment, not special treatment. It is clear that people shouldn't wear badges that declare their allegiance to either side of the debate (quite right). Politics should stay outside the door.

Jewish and Muslim people often feel vulnerable when using NHS services and it's important to address that. Shame on all those on this thread who have dismissed or minimised racism in healthcare.

No it’s not.

but this thread is not about Zionism and I can’t be bothered to get into a debate on that tonight. So we will just have to agree to disagree.

👏 to both you and @Twiglets1

I agree with you. The vast majority of people in mainland Britain would think remembering our war dead is a completely normal and non-controversial thing to do. They would not see the poppy as a political symbol.

Anti-Zionism is not necessarily antisemitism, but do you think that makes it somehow more acceptable?
What do you think Zionism is?

Jews can't be arsed to justify their continued worry and concerns for their family's safety. It's notice not having that worry, I suppose. Zionism is not a form of oppression; it is a form of entenched survival.

I agree about not wearing contentious political symbols, including pro Palestine badges. I think the first consideration should be where your dress will provide a barrier to your patients in accessing care.

I just wanted to say that "no political symbols" is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Because some political symbols help with a sense of safety.

As far as I'm aware, Trusts already issue guidance. Many Trusts issue lanyards or badges promoting political views that they feel will help with access.

On what is a political symbol: personally I'd like to see the back of LGBT lanyards and Black Lives Matter badges in the NHS as well. But I dont rule tge world, and on this issue I think we are talking about pro-Pal badges and Israeli flags not ok, hijab and magen Davids perfectly ok.

The previous poster stated 'in mainland Britain'. We know these symbols are contentious in Northern Ireland. But if you're arguing that the poppy should be banned in mainland Britain because people in Northern Ireland find it controversial, I'm afraid you will get a lot of pushback.

I’m not Muslim or Jewish but I totally agree that any show of discrimination in the NHS, or anywhere that deals with the public on a daily basis, is disgraceful behaviour. I am old enough that stories of WWII were everywhere when I was young and we grew up with the knowledge. I imagine that, if I was Jewish, I would feel very on edge in the current climate and in a place like the NHS, where we are all vulnerable, any outward sign of discrimination would make me anxious whether the staff seemed competent and caring or not.

Id be interested in hearing the views of Palestinians killed in the name of Zionism - I’m sure they’d have their own safety concerns. I actually also don’t think religious views - of any direction - should be free from scrutiny if they are harming others, just because they are based on religion. That’s not antisemitic/ Islamophobia/ anti-Buddhism, it’s an opinion on the boundaries of freedom of religion. But as I said, both those things are a separate discussion, so feel free to start a thread on it.

We agree people should feel safe and without political or religious prejudice in their medical treatment, perceived or real, so we can agree to disagree on Zionism.

I agree. I think these symbols cause more questions than they provide solutions. This nonsense was soon stopped by the Met police. An impartial public service across the board is the only way to make everyone feel equally safe.

It's the first I've heard of Palestinians being killed in the name of zionism.

But if you're arguing that the poppy should be banned in mainland Britain
I'm not arguing it should be banned at all I was highlighting why it is a political symbol. And McClean the footballer referenced in the article I linked got the abuse referenced when he was playing for English League clubs in "mainland" Britain because he refused to wear the poppy!

Except her op wasn’t just about people opposing Netanyahu, was it?

It also mentioned:

• midwife Fatimah Mohamied, who allegedly endorsed a post supporting Palestinian “resistance” on Oct. 7, 2023 by responding “Hell yeah!!!” to a post during the Hamas-led onslaught of October 7, 2023, that said: “Palestinians have a right to resist their occupation — we have a right to support them.”

• physician Dr. Abdelaal Ragheb Elfarra who claimed Zionists control the media and the world

• emergency physician Dr. Nadeem Crowe described Israel as a “terrorist octopus.”

• occupational therapist Zaida Akhtar allegedly shared a video appearing to encourage violence against Netanyahu’s son and a “false flag” claim about the Bondi Beach attack in Australia last year.

So what do you think about these?

I think you just have to accept that many around you are racists. And the positive thing with them being open about it is that you at least know now.

I have not read this thread and don't intend to, as I can see the current result of the poll. It'll be one excuse after another as to why someone isn't a racist when they are. It is like the "I cannot be a racist because I've got a friend that is [insert any minority here]" brigade who then just spews all sorts of tacism.

Antisemitism is nothing new. People are just .more proud of it now

Anyone wanting guaranteed single sex intimate care would be alarmed by an LGBT friendly lanyard though. Everyone has their own perspective.