AIBU to think missing five lessons as a detention seems counterproductive?

Sounds like you're only concerned about your sons gcses and couldn't care less about the other kids who are trying to learn. Really selfish imo. Have you spoken to him about what he is taking away from the other children? Maybe it's time.

Then he needs to show respect and learn to behave in all lessons, and fast. And you need to support the school rather than complaining Little Lord Fauntleroy is being disciplined.

I’m not sure you’ll get many people to discuss your actual point OP - I agree with you that it’s completely counterproductive by the way.

So many people on MN practically salivate at the thought of a child getting punished. They love it and believe it solves everything. So most of the answers will just be about that and how he’ll ’learn his lesson’ like it’s an Enid Blyton novel.

He'll be pissing about far more than that if he has been put in isolation for 5 lessons. In all my years of teaching I have never come across a child who is only disruptive in one lesson for one teacher. They might be a bit better in some and a bit worse in others but they don't have a personality transplant in just one subject.

Most teachers don't bother to inform parents when children are mucking about in class as it is quicker to just to deal with it themselves. That is why you might have a false impression.

Next time you you have parents evening ask each teacher what his behaviour is like in their lesson and this is what their replies will mean:
Excellent (followed by glowing praise)= Excellent
Good (followed by some praise) = good most of the time.
He can be chatty but he contributes well and seems to enjoy the subject= disruptive but stops when told.
His focus has improved this term = disruptive
Most of the time it is fine = disruptive
It is better now I have seated him away from Bob = disruptive
He is developing some good strategies= disruptive
Lively = disruptive
He is a big character = disruptive
Not very good = total pain in the neck and rude.

You are just making excuses for him. You need to be very solid. “It’s because my teacher doesnt like me” - not interested. “I behave in other lessons” irrelevant. Courtesy and respect for teachers and other students is a basic constant - it has nothing to do with dislike/like, or interest/boredom. It’s a fundamental that he should know from his upbringing and will be expected of him throughout his adult life. No compromises or excuses.

No, but I as a parent am not going to be overly gutted that disruptive children are removed so my children can do what they’ve gone there to do. It’s not salivating, it’s being at our wit’s end at the state of classroom behaviour today because parents can’t get a grip of their kids and instil respect, it is this generation’s biggest failing as far as I’m concerned.

So it seems you sons behaviour is deemed sufficiently disruptive to warrant suspension from lessons. What is he going to be doing instead during the five lessons he is suspended from attending the timetabled lessons,? And more importantly what steps are you taking to encourage him to change his behaviour?

I think maybe you need more information from the school as to what is going on. Just asking your son isn't getting you the full picture.

I always thought of isolation as a kind of internal exclusion.

That might help in the thinking behind it.

They still have to sit in a room at school. It’s just a more boring one with less friends and freedom

In the same boat as you OP. My 15-year-old (who has ADHD) has a difficult relationship with one of his GCSE subject leaders and now spends every other Monday in isolation because when he has this subject last period on a Friday he’s tired, his meds have worn off and he simply can’t focus.

I have talked to the school about the fact that the punishment is not going to correct the behaviour, that he isn’t disruptive in other lessons etc. to no avail.

The difference is that this year the isolation work is at least appropriate to his GCSE subjects. You could ask the school if they would allow this so that at least the time in isolation is spent on core subjects?

You can get top up methylphenidate for the end of the day.

This isn't a detention by any definition that I know! At my son's secondary school, this is called Isolation. The child is removed from a particular lesson due to poor behaviour. They don't 'miss' lessons, they are still taught, just elsewhere, away from the rest of the class.

Disruptive children stop other children from learning so I’m glad the school is being proactive. Lots of children have “unidentified needs” but at secondary age they are old enough to understand the effect their behaviour has on others. If your son is having difficulties then he and you need to find a way to approach this that doesn’t impact negatively on other kids.

What can you do at home? Stop acting like he’s the victim here. Talk to him about how his behaviour affects the rest of the class and encourage him to have some consideration for his peers. Ask his teachers for the work that was done in the missed classes and sit and do it with him at home: if he has to spend his free time catching up, it will be a much stronger deterrent. Raise him to be a responsible and considerate person not an entitled arse.

Are they actually taught by subject teachers or just given work to do and supervised by a suitable adult?

I understand your frustration. But if somebody is taken out a lesson it's because they are a disruption or a distraction to others. In other words a pain in the neck. It's not a detention.

I guess for the OP and all the many parents like her I encountered as a head of year and a sendco schools are not trusted. This was the massive difference I used to find, either the parents believed we were doing the right things or we were stupid and vindictive and persecuted their children because we were bullies.
And I agree with the posters on the thread who have pointed out that he has done some bad stuff to be in isolation.
The other thing parents who hated us used to think was how much their children were missing whilst in isolation, as a teacher of 30 plus years experience I have to say your son won't be missing much as I expect he doesnt do much in normal lessons.

It’s to give everyone else a break from your horrid child. 15 is old enough to pack it in. If there is another kid who has spent all term in isolation, believe me the school will be aware and trying to sort something out. For some kids a mainstream classroom is just not the proper environment. But your kid is clearly just being an arse.

Exactly. 3 doses a day. Maintain attention for the whole school day.

This. Imagine you are the parent of a student who doesn't mess about and just wants to get on with their work. Those students and their parents must be delighted that the disruptive element have been removed.

if you decide to change schools I doubt anyone from the present school will try to prevent you.

It will give everyone else a welcome break from his unacceptable behaviour.

Schools don’t use this sanction for no good reason.

@Icedvanillacoffee your son won't be missing much as I expect he doesnt do much in normal lessons 🙌

Exactly this. In order for a sanction to be effective it's if it acts as a deterrent for a CRITICAL MASS of the population, not whether it works for one particular individual or even a small minority of individuals. I work at a bog standard average state school demographically and approx. 90% of our students don't get a detention for their entire 5-year duration. A further 3% get only one or two detentions so they must dislike it enough that it's usually enough to curb the behaviour.

The same 5% of the population are in and out of prison all the time. That doesn't mean that prison is an ineffective deterrent. The vast majority of the population doesn't have a want or a compulsion to do maladaptive or criminal behaviour in society and for another significant chunk of the population, they are scared off things like theft, punching their annoying boss, speeding, stealing a sandwich from a cafe, groping someone on a night out etc. because of the threat of incarceration and all the consequences that come with it (loss of employment, social stigma etc.).

A sanction is effective for a populace if it acts a deterrent for the vast majority, not necessarily for every individual. There are some people where even the death penalty doesn't deter criminal behaviour.

Besides, detentions and isolations and temporary suspensions are the most severe sanctions schools are legally allowed to implement. If they weren't constricted by law and having to legally keep students in the building and provide them an education, the vast majority of educators would just like to tell disruptive or unpleasant kids "just get out of my school/classroom and never come back please". There is very little appetite amongst the general public to provide an education to people who ruin it for others.

If you or your son don't want him to miss out on his education, then work together to improve his behaviour. It is his actions only that are causing him to be in isolation. If he doesn't want to fall behind, he needs to make better choices.

Thank you! This could be a game changer. On balance we decided against something longer acting because of the appetite suppression and the knock on impact for sleep, but on a Friday when he doesn’t have to be up early the next day that could make the difference.

No, we prefer him not to have misbehaved in the first place, therefore not needing punishment... and the other children had a lesson without disruption.

Are you really suggesting that 121 teaching should be provided for a student in isolation due to bad behaviour by subject teachers?

Schools struggle to recruit teaching staff. There are never teachers free and available for 121 teaching.

This would not even be the case at Eton or Harrow. Let alone at the local state academy secondary school.

He'll be given subject relevant work and left to do it on his on in isolation.

If he can behave in other classes, he is making a choice to misbehave in this one. I would take what he says about what he did with a large pinch of salt. And ignore references to other pupils. They are not your concern nor do you know exactly what their situation is. Your son is using them as a dead cat to minimise what he has done.
Isolation is one of a raft of consequences for misbehaviour. For your son's sake, I would advise you to contact the school to chat to his pastoral head about his behaviour generally and how to support him and the school.