To be shocked at ‘school readiness’

One of the most effective ways I've seen a school tackle some of these issues, was to tell parents they had to come into school (continually) to deal with children's behavioural issuesabd remove them for the rest of ghe day. If a child is not toilet trained they should not be in school.

My dad was a coalminer on shift work, so it was difficult for him, but I have vivid memories of Dad shovelling coal into the coal bunker after it had been dropped off at our back door and - in between shovels - doing maths puzzles with me

We must have been brought up in a similar culture. My dad wasn't a miner but most of my other male relatives were. Nevertheless, every mundane daily task was seized upon as a learning opportunity. Mother used to collect money weekly from neighbours for the 'Xmas Club' (takes some explaining). She'd come home and dump all the money on the table for me to sort out into piles of halfpennies, pennies, thrupenny bits, tanners, shillings, two bobs and half crowns and then add it all up. If I got it right I got a little Cadbury chocolate bar. If I got it wrong I got a little Cadbury chocolate bar anyway. I hope they made me wash my hands first. Can't remember.

Every year on here there’s a thread about children starting school pooping theirselves and unable to talk or eat without cutlery, hang their coat on the peg etc. Every single September!

Someone will always blame an apparent increase in teenage parents (even though statistically there are less than ever before) honestly a personal bugbear of mine because I had dc at 16 and 18, they were both out of nappies at 2 thanks. Dc2 got 40/40 in the end of year one spelling test a couple months ago.

People will blame kids in nursery, someone else will blame kids NOT in nursery.

Personally I think it’s the iPads some kids are NEVER off them. It’s very sad really imagine looking back at your childhood and every memory was just playing on an iPad.

Interesting but it says there that 37% are not ready - not 90% as quoted by OP. I also don’t believe our primary reflects this. A tiny handful perhaps with likely SEN but otherwise all have the basics

It's an average. Schools will differ.

If you ever dare mention on MN that your children help cook/clean/take responsibility for themselves from toddler age + you're accused of lying or exaggerating or assumed you have all the time in the world. Its just basic parenting!

Quite. I'm surprised also to see 4 year olds referred to as toddlers on this thread.

Does this include SEN children or should their parents have to do it as well?

I don't honestly don't know.

I've had 3 kids, all in their 30s now. We actively parented, max hour of TV a day, no screens, shared computer in shared living area, meals fresh made and all at table. They were hard work and could be a handful at home. Every single parents evening we were told what an absolute delight they were at school. I think they had one detention between them for the whole of their school careers, attendance for the two that weren't repeatedly in hospital was something like 98%.

Isn't just a different approach to bringing up children surely. Personally, I think there's plenty of time for cooking and even cleaning when you are older.

A big part of the problem is people saying things like this.

This is how we’ve ended up with a member of staff changing nappies all day long in reception classes instead of being able to interact with children. Now we have one person dealing with situations. People falling over, changing the water for the paint, mediating disagreements and so on and nobody with time for more focused activities like doing a puzzle with a few children or building a tower because someone has to be changing nappies and dealing with toileting all of the time. No wonder the kids can’t concentrate on anything.

There will obviously be varying levels but to not expect anything from your children is failing to parent.
No cleaning, even just picking up their own mess, putting their coat away is failing them.
No cooking, not even basics like making their own cereal or toast is failing them.
No independence, not even dressing or toileting is massively failing them.

Answer the question.

This is so unfair.
Many, very caring, involved, loving families utilise childcare. The COL has meant it is virtually impossible to survive on one salary, unless you are happy to claim benefits.
My two boys went into childcare for 3 or 4 days from 1. My 8yrs old is “working at greater depth” in all areas and also plays a sport to county standard.
My reception child can write his name, do basic arithmetic, dress himself, feed himself, follow instructions, ride a bike and a whole host more.
We have always spent time with them. Read every night, taken them to places, involved them in sports from an early age and restricted screen time.
It not childcare vs SAHP’s. It’s about whether parents are engaged, care and invest time and energy into their kids. Let’s face it, some kids would probably do better in terms of attainment at nursery.

Start school at 6/7 - the majority of children will start some form of day care much younger, and believe me, they can put on coats, say please and thank you etc!

Who said they change nappies all day?

Personally I think it’s the iPads some kids are NEVER off them. It’s very sad really imagine looking back at your childhood and every memory was just playing on an iPad

I agree with you. Sadly, you see it everywhere now. I was in Asda yesterday and there was a child around 2 in a trolley seat being pushed around by his mother, completely immersed in Peppa Pig on a tablet he was clutching. I didn't see him take his eyes off the screen. In cafes, on buses, on trains, Just being pushed round the park in a pushchair. And Mum often engrossed in her own phone.
All situations where the child could learn something about the world they're going to have to live in. In the supermarket they could join in choosing fruit or biscuits, in the park they could learn different trees or plants - on the train they could recognise buildings or pigs or sheep or cows.
It must be really crap being a 3 year old now, compared to the richness of experience we had as children when smartphones, tablets and the internet didn't exist. (providing you had adequate parents - they didn't even need to be excellent parents) There was nothing to direct your attention at except the world around you, the real world, not an electronic image on a little battery powered screen in front of you. It's worse than sad.

I don't see the issue at this age if a child doesn't always say please and thank you? They are still learning. I still regularly have to remind my nine year old to say it.

Many SEND children are very capable, you are lowering the bar and hampering them. ADHD children can read and write and put on coats, autistic children can be pottery trained. Children who are slower cognitively can still put their coats on. Just because there is a SEND need does not mean these children can’t carry out normal functions - it’s really patronising to assume SEND means they can’t recognise their own name.

It is very believable, sadly.

Who’s Don?

Yes he has actually been diagnosed at quite a young age by a professional. Strange comment.

They can't start education at any age. If their child is not in school, they must be educated at home.

I don't see how not showing a toddler how to make a piece of toast or a spag bol is failing them- there's plenty of time for all that. I think cleaning up after yourself is a bit different if you mean putting your toys away and hanging your coat up, but I wouldn't expect or want them to be loading the dishwasher, I mean of course if they put a plate in or something but not the family meal washing up and a wipe down of the surfaces! I think very young children should be having fun, be afforded opportunities for creativity. Mine played with and set up whole worlds and story lines with character toys, they made films and adapted books into plays and performed them with costumes they had made. Obviously, I had to help facilitate that but your there to plant the ideas. Fostering imagination is key to success later in life.

I actually think some of this comes from forgetting how much progress kids make in a year. You have just said goodbye to kids you've taught all year and are now greeted with ones at the beginning. It's like secondary teachers saying how y7 get smaller every year. They don't, they just seem smaller because the ones that have just left y7 were a year older. It's like contrast bias.

Well yes many can eventually do that as it is a wide spectrum. My son can get himself dressed and undressed and put his shoes on as well as his coat. He isn't yet potty trained and is non verbal mostly. He can hold a pen very well and always has done. He is just a couple of years behind developmentally socially and in his development.

It can be frustrating to read some parents of autistic children saying they managed to potty training fine so others should be able to.