To say all pro-Palestinians should watch Fauda on Netflix?

See - playing semantics again. We see you.

And no o don’t respect races or ethnicities where women are second class citizens. Why would I? I don’t wish harm but I also have no respect for anyone who hates women, no matter what the label.

Anything to say on the antisemitism explanation? Or is it just about 4 paragraphs or waffle for an attempted “gotcha”. Your persistent dodging of the discussion says a lot about you. But white people aren’t oppressed- Jewish people are, and you’re not willing to hear about it.

If you’re from a race or ethnic court that hates women no I don’t respect your race or ethnicity.

Andi quite assure you you don’t respect Jewish people. At all.

Can I ask why you think all races and ethnicities, even the ones that perpetuate misogyny, homophobia etc, should automatically be respected? Not everyone is equal - the overly liberal view of “Oh my, you don’t love all the cultures that hate Jews and women, how mean, that’s terrible” has long since stopped washing with me.

I don’t expect or demand black people respect white culture. White culture has oppressed black people for millennia. But I wouldn’t sulk and stamp my feet and demand white people be respected.

I also don’t respect races and ethnicities that abide by Sharia law. Why would I respect a barbaric culture that seeks to harm women?

I think there’s a difference between wilfully spreading a libel and simply stating one’s personal opinion.
What do you think is more harmful? What’s more likely to fuel hatred against a certain group?

What race and ethnicity am I? Am I of one of the races or ethnicities you don’t respect?

Dunno. Don’t care. But I don’t respect you - not because of whatever race you might. But because you are self righteous but also refusing to discuss the world’s most marginalised and at-risk group and rather than having a discussion about the more hatred of a group that never does anything to anyone, you’d rather evade the discussion and use whatabouterry and faux outrage instead.

You think the difference between “race and ethnicity” and “culture” is semantics? Blimey

I didn’t want to get into this discussion because I don’t usually debate race with people who don’t respect all races (what’s the word for such people, it’s on the tip of my tongue) but since you push it -

If you’re from a race or ethnic court that hates women no I don’t respect your race or ethnicity

Which races and ethnicities do you believe hate women and don’t you respect? Please tell me which races and ethnicities are not worthy of respect?

Can you explain how you don’t respect these races or ethnicities because they “hate women” but you simultaneously don’t respect the women of these races and ethnicities because of their race or ethnicity?

I think there’s a difference between wilfully spreading a libel and simply stating one’s personal opinion.

Well, it kind of depends what the personal opinion is, doesn’t it? If the opinion is “I hate this ethnicity for x reason and think they should be wiped of the face of the earth” then I guess that might fuel hatred against the group? What do you think?

I’m not sure why you mention wilfully spreading a libel as if you think I think that’s acceptable. I have said nothing to suggest that is my view.

Its not about "respect". Its about spreading rumours and lies which have been proven to cause harm to real people. The inciting incident of October 7th was a rumour the Jews were planning to flood Al- Asqa Mosque.

The inciting incident of the 1929 Hebron Massacre was a similar rumour.

Blood libels kill people. This is a fact, and it takes precedence over your opinions or feelings.

You are backtracking to culture again. Semantics, semantics…

And I don’t respect races and ethnicities that abide by Sharia law. Why would I respect a barbaric culture that seeks to harm women?

Culture, race, ethnicity - so confusing to know the difference isn’t it? Let’s just use them interchangeably.

No, let’s not. The culture eg Sharia law, is imposed by the people with most power in the group, the men actually. The race and ethnicity are all the people of the group, yes even including the women and children, who you do not respect because they find themselves living in an oppressive culture.

I don’t expect or demand black people respect white culture. White culture has oppressed black people for millennia. But I wouldn’t sulk and stamp my feet and demand white people be respected.

There’s that confusion again. People, culture, historical culture, what’s the difference eh

You don’t think a white child or a white woman should be respected by a black person because of actions by ancestors of white people? Ah okay …

“I hate this ethnicity for x reason and think they should be wiped of the face of the earth”

That’s not what pp said though, is it? Where did they call for anyone to be wiped off the face of earth?
And there is still a difference between saying “I hate this ethnicity” and “I hate this ethnicity because of X libel”.
It like saying “I hate immigrants” (as silly and simplistic that statement might be) vs “I hate immigrants because they eat our pets”.

So you don’t think what race and ethnicity I am, and whether it’s one of those you don’t respect, is relevant whilst you tell me you expect me to listen to you about antisemitism?

Well I never

They scrapped the original Season 5, rewrote it and refilmed it after Oct 7th.
https://www.facebook.com/TheJerusalemPost/videos/fauda-threw-out-season-five-and-started-over-after-october-7lior-raz-and-avi-iss/1319833110252744/

Yes, a new season would have been produced anyway but without using the blood and suffering of the victims of Oct 7th to increase profits.

I haven't seen any Israelis with your opinion.. Well, I’m an Israeli citizen that has this opinion as do others in my circle.

Do you feel the same way about the pro-Palestine films produced since Oct 7th. Including the Hind Rejab one and the Naza doc out of interest? Yes, I said so in my first post. I refuse to watch those too for the same reasons.

Wasn’t the beheading of babies claim about Hamas later debunked? Blood libels go both ways it seems.

As I discussed earlier, this has happened on both sides. Knowingly spreading false accusations is wrong. Unknowingly spreading false information should be avoided but supporters of both sides of this conflict do it, including on MN (see 40 beheaded babies), so to use it to attack only critics of the Israeli regime is disingenuous.

This is a fact, and it takes precedence over your opinions or feelings.

I don’t understand why you keep making comments like this or what you think it means. This is a discussion thread and I am reading other people’s opinions and presenting my own. That is what this thread is for. If you don’t want to hear my opinions, don’t read my posts.

Yes there were an estimated 40 Hamas terrorists in the Cohen house. I did not originally say there was only 1 terrorist there, I wrote correctly 1 Hamas terrorist surrendered using Yasmin Porat as a human shield. Yasmin Porat then told the army and police (including SWAT) that there were 40 terrorists and 14 hostages in the house and exactly which rooms the hostages were being held in. This is important because she told them the 12yo twins were being held in the kitchen. The kitchen suffered a direct hit from a tank shell. You can see it on the police helicopter footage and in the footage and photos of the house afterwards.

You alleged I said there was only 1 but had changed it to 40. I hadn’t. You would have understood if you had ever bothered to read about this part of the Be’eri massacre. You then speculated that it was 40 Hamas vs a 6 man tank brigade to justify the use of tank shells. That’s not what happened.

You also accused me of saying that all civilians on Oct 7th were killed by Israel except for 14- a complete and utter lie. It was you who said that 14 had been killed due to this Hannibal Directive per a UN report and all I did was I asked for a link showing that the UN had reported the Hannibal Directive had been used.

As far as I know, it was not used by the Israeli army. Yes the 14 hostages in the Cohen house were deliberately killed by the order for tanks to shell the house, but that was not due to the Hannibal directive being invoked, it was the decision of one man, BG Hiram, who was in a hurry to conclude the stand off by nightfall against the advice of other army and police commanders who wanted to continue the hostage negotiations.

I don't believe Fauda is making money off tragedy
They are profiting whether you believe it or not. They’re in the business to make money.

Actually, no. "Blood libels" are claims or rumours which have historically been used to incite violence against Jews. How many terrorist attacks have there been targeting Palestinians because of the "beheaded babies" story? How many Palestinians have died because of it. None.

So yeah. Nice try, but it doesn't go both ways at all.

As I told the other person, has any of this "misinformation" directly resulted in violence against Palestinians? How many terrorist attacks have there been targeting Palestinians? How often are Palestinians beaten up in the streets?

Only one group are directly and negatively impacted by spreading misinformation- and its not Palestinians. So no, it doesn't "go both ways".

That’s not what pp said though, is it? Where did they call for anyone to be wiped off the face of earth?

Why do people do this?

You said

I think there’s a difference between wilfully spreading a libel and simply stating one’s personal opinion.
What do you think is more harmful? What’s more likely to fuel hatred against a certain group?

In response I gave an example of a personal opinion which is more likely to fuel hatred than spreading a libel.

So then you accuse me of accusing someone on the thread of saying the personal opinion which I gave as an example to refute your claim?

And there is still a difference between saying “I hate this ethnicity” and “I hate this ethnicity because of X libel”.
It like saying “I hate immigrants” (as silly and simplistic that statement might be) vs “I hate immigrants because they eat our pets”.

I’m afraid I don’t really understand what you’re getting at here. I don’t think that hating an ethnicity or saying you hate an ethnicity is acceptable or reasonable with or without caveats or reasons.

I wasn't "justifying" anything. I was, as ever stating context and reality. In situations where they are heavily outnumbered, army commanders and police officers can sometimes respond with excessive force.

This isn't justifying their actions- its just something that happens. Its not a good decision but its one that has been made before.

I probably jumped to conclusions because people often bring up the Hannibal Directive to minimise or deny Hamas actions on October 7 and perpetuate conspiracy theories about Israel killing 1200 of its own people. If I got the wrong impression on this matter from your comments, I apologise.

There is a particular phrase for claims and rumours against Jews used to incite violence against Jews, “blood libels”.

Claims and rumours are used against other groups to incite violence)see 40 beheaded babies). These don’t have a special name.

Denying they exist because there is a particular name for libels against Jews and a different name should be used when other groups are targeted is nonsensical.

How many terrorist attacks have there been targeting Palestinians because of the "beheaded babies" story? How many Palestinians have died because of it. None.

You don’t think the 40 beheaded babies claim had any effect on the response by Israel to October 7 and the responses of Israel’s supporters? I’d bet my house there are still some supporters of Israel’s actions against the Palestinians who believe that particular lie. And even if the lie didn’t have any effect, it wasn’t for want of trying, so the point that it works both ways still stands.

I was, as ever stating context and reality. In situations where they are heavily outnumbered, army commanders and police officers can sometimes respond with excessive force.
You were not stating context and reality, you were posting speculation that was completely not at all the context or reality that actually occurred on Oct 7th. You are still doing it even though I have helpfully posted links to the basic chain of events. You still can’t be bothered to read what happened and are stubbornly persisting in posting false information.

The Israeli army and police far outnumbered the Hamas terrorists in the Cohen house at the time the decision was made to use tank shells which resulted in the hostage deaths. There was also no ‘heat of battle in a confined space’ as you earlier posted, it was during a tense hostage negotiation stand off where no shots were being fired in an outdoor space.

If I got the wrong impression on this matter from your comments, I apologise.
Thanks for apologising on the Hannibal directive. For the record, I did not bring it up. I responded to your post alleging a UN report said 14 people had been killed as a result of the Hannibal directive on Oct 7th. I asked for a link to the UN report you mentioned which has yet to be provided by yourself.

Amazing how everything that they feel could possibly give any empthy to Jews gets stolen from them. The history of racism and prosecution towards the often most vulnerable minority group means certain words were used to describe their suffering. However the haters will continue to try and steal even those away. A word full of words and phrases that someone could use but no they always have to claim anything showing Jewish pain can, just to numb people to what it is they are really doing or promoting themselves.

Oh noes, we can’t have blood libels against Hamas!
Can’t you see the difference between a blood libel directed at an ethnic group as a whole and an unverified accusation against a terrorist group which did commit plenty of horrific atrocities on that day, but just not that particular one?

Hating someone is one thing.
Telling others lies about that person to encourage them to hate them too, is another.
Personally, I’d say the latter is worse.

As I told the other person, has any of this "misinformation" directly resulted in violence against Palestinians? How many terrorist attacks have there been targeting Palestinians? How often are Palestinians beaten up in the streets?

So you’re going to ignore the tens of thousands of deaths of innocent people, including children, at the hands of the IDF, the treatment of Palestinian prisoners and the beatings and murders by terrorist settlers for the purposes of this particular point? None of this could be in any way influenced or worsened by false claims against Palestinians? Of course not.

The war that followed the October 7th attack wasn’t simply triggered by the ‘40 beheaded babies’ claim.
Whether or not you agree with Israel’s response, it wasn’t just based on false claims.