Welsh teenagers 2 years of education behind English teenagers

Afaik Welsh medium schools are in the minority so that’s unlikely to be the major factor, but this (from 2020) suggests it may be part of it:
https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/news/welsh-medium-school-pupils-underperform-in-tests-despite-more-advantaged-backgrounds

Such as?

Having seen the pressures English schools are under as regards fitting things in god only knows how Welsh schools manage Welsh too!

At what cost? Our mental health stats are horrific, we have high numbers of children not even in school and SEN provision is dire. Schools are miserable places, staff are leaving by in their droves, the arts are just punted out. Those above us in the list have higher teenage suicide levels . But of course no one cares about that.

No idea; I know very little about the Welsh education system.
My point mainly was in relation to finding ways not to sacrifice the national language. I’m from a country with a first language which could also be in danger of dying out and I’m happy to say that there’s always uproar when there is any governmental chat about potential relaxing its importance in the curriculum. I hated it at the time as it’s a difficult language to learn, but I’m glad I did learn it and it’s a huge part of our national heritage and identity which I suspect Welsh also is for Welsh folk.

No, it’s what years of a totally unfair funding settlement, which does not take into account the particular geographical and demographic challenges of Wales, does to a country. And that’s why Wales voted Plaid Cymru in, for a government that is not in the pocket of the Labour government in Westminster and will actually fight for Welsh interests.

I think people are getting confused - Welsh medium schools teach all subjects in Welsh, but they are in the minority. Most schools teach Welsh the way that French or Spanish is taught in England. However, at secondary the syllabus has changed to reduce English language and literature to one subject, and science to one GCSE. This hugely depletes the content level, and means that if kids want to go on and study at a higher level they are at a big disadvantage against their English counterparts. It's a relatively new change so it's hard to see the affects yet.
When you add in that teachers need to have a grasp of Welsh in order to apply for jobs you are again hugely reducing the number of people who can apply for roles, and ruling out some excellent staff and leaving quite a few not so good ones.
The play based aspect of early years is a positive, but it's not a surprise that Wales is lagging behind based on PISA.

But what would you do? We can't just say well we won't teach anything so children will be happy, that won't work. There is also a strong correlation between a lack of education and poor health, is that what you want? I suspect a lot of children struggle with school because they are bored because so little is expected of them.

Why do you think the play based system in early years is a positive?

Provide a curriculum that caters for all and is engaging. Children are struggling in school
because the curriculum’s unbearably dry
and demanding, there is also little in it for SEND with provision stretched to the bone
and the arts have been shoved out.

It’s not just wales though the same thing has happened in Scotland (the headline was “English school children in top 10 whilst wales and Scotland slump”) indicating it’s not about learning the language but that yes, devolution could well be a factor

Because our education system starts them very young. Scandinavia is recognised as being pretty successful at education, and they don't start formal education until much later than we do. The jump from reception to year one is widely acknowledged as being a big struggle for many kids in England, because five year olds simply aren't ready or able to benefit from a bums on seats approach to learning. By being play based for longer they are moving around and using their bodies and so better able to engage in activities as well.

These results do not reflect the new curriculum, though, they're of students who were taught under the prior curriculum.

I worked in Welsh Education in schools
and ITE. It is grim.

The curriculum was decided by consensus. I spent many hours in conference rooms with post-its. The result is non-sensical. The changes to English and science GCSE will make Welsh learners less competitive.

Teacher training is ideological. There are efforts to promote research, but ‘research’ is considered Welsh government reports. I’ve authored some some of those reports. The civil servants know what they will say before they are commissioned.

My kids have done well, in spite is their schooling; which was mostly indifferent and occasionally excellent or terrible.

There’s not much to be said for almost 30 years of devolution but it has allowed for a massive real-time experiment in school systems.
Starting with Thatcher, continued by Major, Blair and Brown, given huge boost under Cameron-Gove-Gibb, English schools saw major reforms — academies, free schools etc.
Scottish schools stayed totally comprehensive under the dead hand of socialism/nationalism. No variety in state system. But lots more money.
Ditto Welsh schools.
Results are in and they couldn’t be clearer — English state schools have powered ahead, Scottish and Welsh schools have fallen back into mediocrity or worse.
Scottish/Welsh pols too blinkered to learn the lessons so more decline beckons.
What is unforgivable is that the current Labour government under two appalling education secretaries — Lucy Powell and Bridget Phillipson — want to roll back all the progress that’s been made in England to appease the hard-left teaching unions and the left-wing Blob.

There is no evidence that starting school later contributes to finlands high pisa scores (and Finland has fallen in the ranking, replaced by S Korea, Poland) and it’s not Scandinavia that performs pretty well, it’s Finland.

also there are many schools with very poor education systems that also formally start at 7 I.e. Russia

No, it’s what years of a totally unfair funding settlement, which does not take into account the particular geographical and demographic challenges of Wales, does to a country. And that’s why Wales voted Plaid Cymru in, for a government that is not in the pocket of the Labour government in Westminster and will actually fight for Welsh interests.

So , so deluded. Its embarrassing. 30 years of evidence and its still blame Westminster, geography and evil tories etc. On every metric possible Wales is behind England. Even rugby

It’s pretty widely recognised that the Barnett formula is outdated and unfair.

Devolution at its finest. I’m sure they’ll fall further behind under Plaid because they’ll push the Welsh language agenda even further.

Having taught in both England and Scotland, I would absolutely loathe for my child to be under the English education system because the academic pressure over the well-being of the child is absolutely not worth it.

And I definitely feel happier teaching in Scotland too.

Interestingly Denmark was lower down the ranking than the UK average- think Finland was too. Maybe we shouldn’t be puting so much emphasis on them or maybe we aren’t really that bad after all? Headlines can be misleading.

YY, absolutely I am not meaning to put everything onto the reform.

Understaffing, underprovision of resources both in MS and also in terms of lack of specialist places, CAMHS basically being in freefall, a complete lack of any kind of early intervention, wait lists longer than a child's life - it all adds up to a really shit picture.

Welsh language in school is a diversion in this debate, not the reason for lower achievement. The main effect of Welsh language in school is a two-tier primary school system. Usually the Welsh medium primary is sought after and the English medium primary is shunned. So the former is full of families who value education (which tends to have more engaged parents, more reading at home, more cultural capital etc) and the latter tends towards the more chaotic and disengaged families which translates into more disrupted classroom time, less parental help with reading, fewer financial contributions towards trips and clubs etc). In areas with a choice, the trend reverses for secondary. It’s the same in areas of England with grammar schools - the comps are not actually comprehensive anymore. And it becomes much harder to lift lower attainers in this environment.

Add to this a chaotic and narrow curriculum and ta da! Low attainment for all.

Welsh language schools used to perform far better than the English schools in Wales. Something else must be the reason for the drop in achievement.

As already said in an earlier contribution lrish kids all learn lrish at school right up to 18 and yet their education system is featuring high on all European scores. Our doctors, engineers, nurses etc are highly regarded across the world and the vast majority of students take a degree with a high percentage at Masters level. Education is about life as well as your career and that's why l think its good we keep a broad range of subjects right to the end so we have a well rounded student emerging from Secondary school. The biggest obstacle to success is poverty and not learning your local languag

Because the majority of Welsh people speak English only so it’s entirely different. English is taught in Welsh schools in the same way as English is taught in English schools. Welsh is taught as a 2nd language the same was French or German is