Whole families on UC, PIP, DLA and carers' allowance for each other?

There was a lot of horrible rhetoric at the time. But there was a real issue of mother's on benefits and not working at the time. At one time you could claim benefits as a single mum and not have to look for work until your child left school. The rules were changed and now most mums work at least part time. So there was a real issue that was solved.

You are demonstrating my point.

Neither I nor the OP are talking about you.

Yet you jump in to derail the conversation. You are defending those who abuse the system. You are trying to prevent a discussion about how to help those who are stuck in a benefits rut and don’t want to get out of it because that is what their community does and all they know.

Your defensiveness is blinding you.

Well that depends on what type of SEN school it is
My son goes to a school for childden with severe and profound learning disabillities
The needs of these children are evident to everyone and its very obvious msinstream wouldnt be suitable for
I am seeing a rise in SEMH schools which is good though.

This is the world I grew up in. It is still going - I left it behind in the 90s and have odd updates from someone who married into the family. I saw draft applications for various benefits/social housing a few years ago and was disgusted by it. I dont know why cross checks arent done across local authorities etc. They all know how to maximise benefit claims, all know the appeals systems, all know what symptoms to complain of to bolster claims. One ND moves out, move on to getting another child diagnosed. Finding out everything they are entitled to at the schools, all the charities who give free things to these families. They only ever work cash in hand, have cupboards FULL of prescription meds they dont need but get it free and take it to bolster their fraud. And dont ask me about their 7/8 holidays abroad each year including cruises. It goes on and on. They dont flaunt the holidays on sm as not daft that way - their semi legal pals do though - the benefits officers wouldnt know the friends. They contribute nothing, criticise everything and access EVERYTHING they possibly can.

On the contrary there are families who should get help, who need help and would qualify - but barely access a thing - for various reasons.

And families fighting tooth and nail for basic help.

It may or may not be, but your 'experience' sounds completely made up and this does come across like a propaganda benefit bashing thread. 🤖

Having a SEN kid is really fucking hard. You may have had everything given to you as an adopter, but it isn't the reality for most SEN parents with biological SEN children. I had two tribunals in a year, all whilst my son barely slept more than three hours most nights and both of us were working.

The reason why one of us claims UC (after both trying to work full time) is because of lack of sleep, endless SEN admin/chasing professionals, exhaustion of managing a child with PICA and meltdowns and the constantly cleaning and tidying you get with a child with severe learning disabilities and sensory seeking behaviour. Plus there is no afterschool or holiday clubs which either one or two people cannot cover for the 15 or so weeks they have off in the holidays. Even couples dont get 15 paid weeks of leave a year or a job that supports that sort of leave.

People manage behaviour at home that an entire team of people manage in a school or a MH unit and even in a MH unit they can manage with meds. We are really fighting just to access medication for our son now. There is just you at home and services that placate you and just don't help, not a team of people there all the time.

The fact you don't get this as a supposed person raising SEN kids makes your opening post really hard to believe as genuine. And how do you explain families who have a normal, thriving child and one with high needs?

The reason parents don't engage in your wonderful groups is because they have tried everything before and you are not offering anything new to them and they are extremely patronising, or just not offering a decent solution. Frantically flicking through a book of PEC cards in the morning to find 'get dressed' with a child that with turn away as soon as you get them out is something we have all tried and just isn't practical. We've got a new app out now to do this, but how long have people in these group suggested this. One solution doesn't work for all kids but it is assumed it does.

There are probably cases like you say, but my experience is it is a very small minority. They will always exist sadly, as they always have.

Where did I say doctors are faking diagnosis? What I said was, patients can reel off symptoms, get a diagnosis or medical letter, then use this to support DLA and PIP applications. I know situations where people have done exactly that. 🤷🏻‍♀️

My lived experience is that, when going to private doctors and specialists, they will write letters stating the symptoms and effects I have told them I am suffering with. In my case, these have all been genuine, but I can absolutely see how someone could go to a specialist, reel off symptoms and get them to write a letter stating the patient had / was suffering from symptoms or conditions, when the patient is exaggerating or not being honest. For example, I went to a private gastroenterologist and told them my symptoms - they subsequently diagnosed me with IBS (there is no test for this) - and wrote a letter to my GP with my symptoms, the impact on my life and recommendations for prescriptions. How does one police whether I was telling the truth or not in this scenario?

I know how hard it is to achieve these things whilst caring. My son requires an incredible amount of time dedicated to protecting him from allergen exposure. You should be really proud of yourself for doing all of this. Don't feel any kind of ashamed from this post. You're a warrior woman, you deserve supporting, and you're smashing it 💕

I think the people criticising the OP and saying they don’t recognise the paradigm the OP is talking about are being disingenuous to say the least. We ALL recognise the kind of people OP is talking about, many of us just don’t talk about it otherwise we would be accused of benefits bashing. The fact is these people exist and it doesn’t serve the children at all who then go on to repeat the same life choices as their parents and others they see around them.

I am not sure what the answer is @Hutinthemiddleofnowhere but it is very problematic. I have seen it, it’s frustrating and saddening but it would involve such a cultural shift that I feel incapable of making change.

Benefits haven’t CAUSED it at all. Children with significant needs grow up to become adults with significant needs, who meet and have a family with other adults with significant needs. And the cycle perpetuates. OP has not yet realised that her children will grow up and they or their peers will become those very same parents. She will be the GM doing the school run for them.

Benefits don’t cause MH issues, learning disabilities, congenital conditions FFS.

Also

1- PIP isn’t an out of work benefit. Many people receive PIP, still work and can easily pay for their hols.

2- it’s not because people are disabled that they can’t go away in hols.

3- And they often have a partner that works and will ‘participate’ in paying fur said holiday. ie it’s not PIP that pays for the holiday!

Absolutely, I am dealing with this with my own stepdaughter, who at 16 is starting to make choices about her future. Because of the influence of her mother (who she doesn’t live with anymore), she sometimes mentions about not working and instead claiming PIP and UC, as that’s the example modelled by her mother and older siblings.

I suspect the OP just doesn’t think her dcs will ever have children.
I suspect, from her OP, she doesn’t believe they should have children at all.

Let’s be honest there.
I follow a few accounts of disabled people on IG. People in wheelchair in particular (one is a couple both in WC).
They’ve all been reported and investigated by SS because someone, somewhere, believed they couldn’t look after their dcs properly.
The exact thing the OP is saying.

Shell be horrified when said children will start to have a sex life etc….

1. You can get PIP if you are working, but most people on PIP are not working. And the type of people OP is talking about would not be eligible for PIP if they showed they could work.

1. Going away on holiday is very tough if you have a severe disability. Plane journeys, new places, new experiences, lack of accessibility. I know this from experience. I have disabled friends who cannot go abroad as it's just too hard unless in a specialist disability tour group. But suddenly these peoples neuro diversity issues do not stop them going abroad and being exposed to lots of stimulation.

1. Yes if one partner is working, other partner on PIP and kids all on DLA, the family can have an income of £5k a month. Affording holidays is not a problem

It's not caused it all but it's an enabler. It's completely disingenuous to pretend otherwise. It's removed the incentive for many to even try to improve their situation because they know that they won't get more money by trying to break the cycle and will often be worse off. People don't want to hear it but it's human nature. Not everyone in this situation has profound special needs and often the people with the profound special needs aren't having children. Lots of these families have parents that could sort themselves and contribute meaningfully to society if they were incentivised to do so.

I think there is an awful lot of cognitive dissonance going on in many posts. There is almost a panic that if we acknowledge that some parents can should be doing better and the benefits system is propping then up to continue living such unproductive and lazy lifestyles that this will mean that benefits will stop for everyone and those who genuinely need them would be go without as well.

Of course. We both work and claim. Seems easier to push that myth on here though.

Well shes 16 so isnt going to understand how the benefit system works
And she can say shes going to claim PIP all she wants but without robust evidence shes unlikely to be successful.

People are visceral in their objection that people game the system, yet most people know at least one person who commits benefit fraud. Be that pretending to be single, false disability claims etc.

I have a family member on UC who openly brags about conning the job centre so he’s unemployable and can claim job seekers allowance. He does things like writing ridiculous things on his CV, or making his spelling atrocious, or creates unprofessional, grotesque email addresses. He ‘ticks the box’ because he can demonstrate he has applied for jobs, but essentially makes it so he has no chance of being offered an interview. I’m sure he is not the only one doing things like this.

Yawn.

Exactly, she shouldn’t even know what PIP and UC are! She only mentions these things because her mother has made a career out of claiming benefits and has her older siblings set up in flats claiming UC, PIP etc.

What about the children in all of this? Don't they have a right to a reasonable childhood with adequate parents? It doesn't have to be perfect but it's utterly heartbreaking to see the damage some selfish parents wreak in their children's lives. Disabled or not disabled, it's inexcusable and shouldn't be allowed. Children don't ask to be born. If you have children you should make sure you're in a position to look after them properly. Don't direct your anger at people like OP who are frustrated with shit parents. We all should be and more should be done as this single biggest determinant of so many outcomes for so many children.

I'm personally not at all convinced that the job market would change to accommodate more people with illness and disability if we were to do away with relevant benefits.

Maybe not, but it is so damaging to write people off as being too disabled to work when many can and should be contributing something. If they can't find gainful employment then they should be able to find non paid work that helps the community and in return get their benefits. There is so much that could be done to make society a better place and yet we lack resource and on the other hand we have lots of people sat at home doing nothing.

It's not good for anyone.

While the OP might be right that some people are taking the mick, most of them are genuinely struggling. It’s actually so difficult to get benefits unless you and/or your DC have serious physical disability that it’s obvious you are a genuine case. Similarly, if you have an invisible disability like severe autism or ADHD, you’d lack the executive functioning to be able to apply for the benefits yourself and your family would advocate for you and get an organisation or social worker to help you access them.

It’s impossible to judge other people without living their lives. You’re neurotypical and able bodied with a good IQ so you have no barriers to setting a good example for your SEN children. You might even be able to search for good opportunities for them in life and minimise the disadvantages that they have been dealt with. You might even inherit a house that they can live in free of charge or own your own home that they could inherit. But people with undiagnosed conditions who end up having SEN children won’t necessarily have good jobs to begin with, then when they have kids, their kids will have very high needs and take up all of their parents time and energy. Those kids won’t likely have good jobs and will need to rely on benefits to survive.

That’s what sort of happened to me. I had ADHD inattentive type my whole life and didn’t know it because in women it doesn’t manifest as physical hyperactivity. I was a good student but always did things at the last minute and had trouble starting long essays or doing coursework. I got a 2:1 in a good university but struggled a lot after graduating. I quit my PGCE course because of burnout 3 months into the course. If I’d known I had it, I could have taken stimulants much sooner, done my PGCE part time or deferred for another year after taking stimulants.I could have done part time teaching or worked 1 to 1 in pupil referral units or hospital teaching sessions. I could have just done the PGCE and done something else with it because it’s quite an impressive qualification to have. I could have done something else like administrative work or recruitment.

But instead I had a series of low level jobs, my best job was as an EFL teacher abroad but I only lasted 2 years before I got burnt out and had to change direction again. I found an entry level job in accounting and was on track to getting slightly better jobs through experience alone. I was saving into a private pension and starting to save money for a deposit to buy a one bed flat up north or a similar shared ownership flat on the outskirts of London. By then I had learned to function well and was working from home, which made things easier.

Then I decided to have a baby. I don’t regret having my son, he is the light of my life, but if I’d known earlier that something was wrong with me, I might not have done it. Pregnancy and motherhood changed my brain chemistry for the worse. I was forgetful, exhausted, irritable and had no joy whatsoever. My antidepressant was increased to cope with PND but it made my brain even more sluggish. My partner left me because of how difficult it was. After my child turned 2.5, he became even harder to look after. He was very clingy and became distraught whenever I left to work part time. He’d go from 0-100 in mood and was very hyperactive. I had to put all my resources into sorting him out.

I suspect that he also has ADHD so he’s delayed by 30% compared to his peers. Potty training him and constantly cleaning up after him almost broke me because he wouldn’t learn, was never aware of the need to wee until it was too late, yet I punished myself and went through with it because I read in all the newspapers that my son would be judged at nursery for still being in a nappy and that parents like me were a disgrace and a burden on teachers time. He still has accidents every other day and he has been fully trained for 2 months now. He refuses having his teeth brushed, his nails trimmed and his hair cut. I’ve had my GP refer him to a specialist dental service in a hospital because of the plaque on his teeth, for which he’ll need to be sedated for a cleaning. I’ve had to take him to a special needs friendly children’s hairdresser 2 hours from home. Nothing anyone has ever suggested works. Nothing is ever effortless. I have to work twice as hard to look after myself because I’m slowed down mentally and I have to work twice as hard to look after him too.

Luckily, I have been prescribed stimulant medication for my ADHD and it’s starting to work and is improving my mood and energy levels. I feel like I’ve been given a second chance. BUT I’ve been out of work for 4 years and now it’s very hard to get back into work. I would need to volunteer first. I can only work 10 hours when my son starts nursery school and it would need to be remote or cleaning work to fit into his schedule. It’s almost impossible to find work for another year because of these constraints.

By the time I get back on my feet again at work, he will have started reception and I will be back to square one. I’ll be intensively looking after my slightly SEN son and working at low-ish capacity never going beyond entry level. It’s the best case scenario, to provide stability for him until he’s in secondary school.

I know I won’t be entitled to DLA or PIP for myself or my son because we are somewhat high functioning.

My point is, if it’s this hard for me to organise my life and earn a good living, imagine how much harder it is for someone who has a debilitating disability and their children do too.

I’m currently on UC because I ran out of savings at some point and I live at home with my elderly parents in a run down house with mold, which I clean every year with bleach or call the housing association to treat. My son and I are listed as living here but not on the tenancy. I hope that we could continue to be housed here or moved to a smaller property if something happened to my parents in the next decade.

What would have happened to someone like me in the past before the welfare state at my lowest when I felt depressed and anxious and there were no antidepressants? Probably put in a lunatic asylum or workhouse or taken my own life. Obviously that would have eliminated the weakest from society and the ones left would be the strongest and also the absolute weakest who do deserve looking after. But life has been beautiful and a fascinating journey and I’m grateful for the welfare system in this country.

Loads of people with illness and disability already work, especially in the older age group.

Wow. Yes there may be an element of people like this. But to generalise in you roll is wrong, I have a DD with ASD/OCD/PDA, as well as the daily challenges, The paperwork, forms filling, parent course, school meetings, part time timetable, CAMHS ect is a full time job in itself. And next year we have senior school to deal with, which means this year I need to go speak to them etc.
On top of that I gave a younger child who also needs me.
DH works full-time, but yes people look at me and think Im lazy. As I "don't work".
Soyes I clame DLA for her. I also have ASD myself and get PIP. As the toll of it all has taken a hit on my mental health, executive functioning skills, physical health etc, if I had to work as well I eould absolutely break down, and be unable to function, the money helps me to buffer, fund support, pay for convenience, and give me some breathing space.