AIBU to question a pool asking my four-year-old daughter to cover up?

Because she doesn't need one?

True, rather than starting a thread here though wouldn"t the best thing have been to have just asked for a chat with the manager and get them to outline the reason for the policy, then maybe discuss it online?

I agree with you OP. It is seriously weird to suggest a topless four year old is ‘inappropriately dressed’. What does this mean, in reality? Who is offended or even would bat an eyelid? I find the sexualisation of kids (and how it is normalised on this thread) truly concerning.

The point is, you teach your children to not let anyone other than trusted caregivers touch them without their consent, full stop. Even a hand hold can be intrusive from the wrong person. Hence, it is irrelevant if either a small boy or small girl has their nipples uncovered.

Based on what? Pretty much everyone thinks my DD is a boy (short hair and neutral clothing). I don't bother to correct people who I'll likely never meet again.

I have two friends with sons - one boy has long hair and wears typical boyish clothing. It is 50/50 whether someone will refer to him as a boy or a girl. The second boy has short hair but lots of hand me downs from his sister (including a pink swimming onesie). 100% girl comments.

I've also read this before.

YABU because at 4, you should be teaching your daughter about private parts. It doesn't matter that she doesn't yet have breasts, she should know that anyone (apart from parents and trusted caregivers) asking to see/access her chest or genitals is inappropriate.

Of course kids should be able to be kids, but the world is full of fucking perverts and wrong uns. Prepare your daughter.

@PinkWaffleMaker No, that is not the definition of 'private parts'! And I have addressed your other comment very shortly after my first.

Why? Certainly not because dh thought the man would find dh's chest sexy. So why did he do it? Dh simply said afterwards "I couldn't speak to a stranger with no top on!"

Exact same experience with dh. In the height of the heatwaves we've had in recent years, he must always don a t-shirt to answer the door. I understand without asking why he does it.

My little ones all wear swimsuits - so their torso, legs, shoulders, arms etc are all covered.

I don't think you're being unreasonable to not cover her top (she doesn't have breasts!) but personally I cover up my kids in a full swimsuit, even boys, so if the bottoms were small maybe it just seemed like they were wearing very little?

The NSPCC pants campaign talks about:

Swimming – a great time to say that what's covered by swimwear is private.

The campaign has been really positive in supporting kids to understand whats private and whats not and how to set boundaries. Its for children as young as 3/4. Whether you like it or not there are many people out there targeting kids. I have worked in safeguarding/ prison health for a long time and maybe I am over the top but I have always made sure my kids have worn appropriate swim wear - my DD has never gone topless, as a child or young person. Its not sexualising kids its unfortunate reality.

Are you sure? My 6yo dd chooses to wear dinosaur, spiderman etc T shirts and frequently gets mistaken for a boy in spite of long hair. My ds has short hair and wears predominantly boyish clothes (dd's hand me down) but has pink wellies so still gets mistaken for a girl.

Boys and girls look the same at that age without gendered clothing.

If Op chose to dress her dd in a frilly girls' knickers type swimming bottoms, with no top, then that'll be how the staff member guessed. If the dd was wearing boys' shorts, no one would have batted an eyelid

I put my boys (5 and 3) in rash vests and swimming shorts for indoor and outdoor swimming. I find the boys are less slippery and easier to hold/support when needed with the rash vests on! I agree that the rash vest isn't the easiest garment to take off - it requires both hands and child co-operation, but does take about 5 seconds in total.

I have never seen a girl without a top at our local pool when the boys are having their lessons, it's mostly one pieces here, occasionally a bikini/tanking. Not saying you're right or wrong OP, just stating what the norm is here.

I don't think you should have been shamed by the staff member at your pool for your decision. And kudos to you for taking both of your kids swimming solo, I've never been brave enough!!

I have no idea what pedos are into. Male nipples aren't generally considered to be private parts but nipples on females are. If we are teaching girls which parts are private shouldn't we include all of the private parts?

I agree - things can be seen as culturally inappropriate without being sexualisation. Eg asking a man to put a shirt on when coming in to a restaurant.

i don’t think there is a right answer and i have no opinion either way. I wouldn’t care if a 4 year old girl isn’t wearing a top. I also would put mine in a top. I certainly remember in the 90’s/2000’s young girls (up to 8 ish) walking around with tops off in the heat just like the boys but has become more unacceptable now.

Perfectly normal for them to ask you. I have never seen a child of 4 just in bottoms in a pool.

Sorry how do you tell young girls and boys apart? Other than by their name or asking them? They do not look inherently different at all

I don't understand this. I find it quite easy to tell girls and boys apart.

I remember being around 4 years old and having to wear only bottoms, I hated it and wanted to wear costume/top, but had to wear hand me down boys trunks.

Why are boys wearing shorts in that case?

I hope i made it clear that I don't agree with young girls wearing hijabs. I just understand that the reason behind it is an (in my opinion very unnecessary) idea of female modesty rather than sexualisation.

Similarly this staff member has an (arguably unnecessary) idea that girls' chests are private. One can disagree with that (I do) but it is not sexual. Just as my dh wouldn't have confronted a male stranger topless, through an (I'd argue, unnecessary) idea of modesty, not because of any idea of sexuality in that moment.

People can have different ideas of modesty without it being sexual. I don't agree with the staff member, but her views, that girls' chests are private, are within the norms of our british society and are not sexually perverse.

But not boys? Because psedos don't like boys or because boys grow into men so it doenst matter as much?

Her child is more comfortable wearing just bottoms so why would you make a point of teaching a child that her comfort doesn't matter because others may find her body offensive?

In fairness, she's going to have to get used to it one day if she wants to frequent public swimming facilities. Or do one piece swimsuits become more comfortable as you grow up?

A girls swimsuit that’s actually fitted properly doesn’t leave half their bum exposed. If your child is bigger than average, you have the option to put them in shorts, certainly.

This is one of those things that has changed massively in my lifetime. When I was a kid, it was very common for little girls up to about age 5? to wear just bottoms at a pool (and it was pretty normal for all little kids up to age 3 or so to be completely naked on a beach!)

I very rarely see naked kids on the beach these days, and I've never noticed a girl of any age wearing just bottoms at a pool (although if she had shortish hair and neutral bottoms/shorts than I probably wouldnt notice the)

At the same level theoretically there is no real reason why men can’t walk around in something akin to their boxers in the high street or women don’t wear bralet tops to work - there is a societal expectation of what is culturally acceptable.

As for hijab sometimes younger girls (more like young pre teen age) make the choice themselves? They understand the reasons why - they know what sexualisation is and decide to make their own decision of what to show or cover of their own bodies. Just like all the pre teen girls who want to wear micro shorts or hot pants - it’s their choice too.

as for the younger girls I probably would just see it as girls imitating older women in their lives. Much like wanting to wear their mothers make up or choosing a two piece or bikini swim wear.

How do you know you haven't seen a girl in just bottoms?