AIBU to question a pool asking my four-year-old daughter to cover up?

In France this summer I was surprised to see children aged 5-6, after a swimming class, change out of their swimsuits at the poolside, so they were naked while they changed into dry clothes, in an area that anyone could view (it was a public leisure pool with a cafe that overlooked that area, the cafe was open to the general public not just swimmers). There was plenty of changing room space so no idea why they wouldn't have taken the dcs there. That would never be acceptable in the UK so they clearly have very different values.

But incidentally all the girls we saw there, of any age including babies, were wearing one piece swimsuits, or sunsuits (as some of the pools were outdoors).

Well, I'm a fully grown adult, with good co-ordination, flexibility and mobility and in good health, and I would say out of every single outfit I own my swimming costume is the hardest thing to change in and out of, so it makes sense to me that it's hard for a four year old!

Of course it's all relative, I wouldn't say it's difficult, but I refuse to believe that anyone can genuinely say pulling up bikini bottoms isn't easier!

And of course they are supposed to be tight! Going swimming in a baggy suit is uncomfortable, slows you down and risks flashing what you're trying to hide! If they weren't supposed to be tight why did we ever bother moving from knitted woollen swimsuits to elastane type ones?

Because it's social convention that women and girls cover their top halves whereas men and boys don't have to. It doesn't make sense for kids that young but it's what people are used to/expect. I don't think there was anything sinister in it.

I also think that many people on this thread do not understand what sexualising children means! Asking a 4 year old girl to 'cover up' is absolutely sexualising her. You're applying post pubescent concepts to a prepubescent child - that is sexualising a child!! A 4 year old girl has nothing 'cover up' in her top half. Those that find it inappropriate or uncomfortable need to have word with themselves.

My daughter also learnt the 'these are my private parts' song- which gestures to their chest, and their pants area and says 'nobody should see them, nobody should touch them, nobody should feel them'. She is five but she would be really uncomfortable if I suggested going topless in public. Even my 9 year old son- who has quite a slim muscular build from his martial arts classes and no hang up on what he looks like- tells me he would feel weird swimming without a rash vest on. He knows it's an option but hasn't chosen to go in without one yet. But then he always had his top covered to swim from a baby just like his sister.

why is this relevant?
they weren't outside in the sun!

'It's normally just easier and cheaper to have one or two outfits.'
Again, also not relevant - why is is what other people find easier and cheaper of any relevance to OP - she might be easily be able to afford multiple different swimwear options. Besides which bikini bottoms plus rash vest, and just bikini bottoms ARE the same outfit! Just because she's not wearing the rash vest on this occasion doesn't magically make it a completely different outfit and thus more expensive

Still applies
Why would anybody look at a child this way?

They come in different sizes. They don't have to be "very tight". Nothing wrong with what her daughter was wearing but putting on a swimming costume really isn't difficult.

Tell this freak to do one... why is he looking at your daughter this way

It was a woman

Good god prude british people

I live in Europe and now one would give a shit about that. And no we don't have more pedophiles (judging by the school uniform threads):
Tell this freak to do one... why is he looking at your daughter this way 😶

The rest of the population manage perfectly well this is beyond ridiculous

Really? I don't understand what you don't get?

As an ADULT wrestling a full swimming costume up and down, to get dressed or to pee, is a bit of a faff. They have straps, are usually made of very tight material, and are even harder to maneuver out of when wet. Whereas pulling down a pair of bikini bottoms is very easy.

OP has explained several times that she was taking two very small children swimming on her own, so just wanted to make things as easy as possible. Her dd can change into/out of a pair of bikini bottoms on her own, but couldn't do the same with a full swimsuit. Therefore it makes sense to just let her wear the bottoms.

Nobody would bat an eyelid if a small boy was just wearing swimming bottoms in the pool, if anything they would stare more if he had a bikini type top on, so why on earth does it make any difference for OP's dd to do the same, given at FOUR there will be absolutely no difference in the appearance of their chests? In fact, if OP had put her dd in trunks rather than bikini bottoms (presuming her hair wasn't in pigtails or whatever), everyone would probably have just assumed she was a boy.

It is ridiculous... what is a top for on a 4 year old? I cant believe they said this.

You are not unreasonable. I think it was knee jerk reaction from a staff member and her 'policy' is absolutely made up. I would have questioned what part of her anatomy in her top half needs to be covered up exactly? It's just ingrained social construct about what little girls vs boys should wear. You should complain to Nuffield.

Because she doesn't have a winkie, and a boy without a winkie is a girl.

Why on earth would you not put her in a swimming costume like everyone else? its not that hard.

I'm not sure why you need to wrestle with a four year old to get her into a swimming costume. Just put it on her like you would any other item of clothing. By four surely she can mostly dress herself, or at least cooperate as you help her?

It's definitely not the norm in my experience to take young girls swimming topless but I don't see any issue with it either.

Parents of pre-school children can also teach them the chest rule, if they so wish.

Like I said to another poster, we don't have to agree, but I personally think it's unhelpful not to tell girls their chest area is also private, even before puberty.

Why do you keep posting this same question?

Pre-school children are taught the pants rule, not the vest rule.

No-one bats an eyelid at 2 and 3 year olds wandering around just wearing nappies, whether they are boys or girls. There is no difference at age 4.

Nuffield says nothing about children's swimming outfits. I read their very long Ts&Cs and general instructions on a PDF from their website

If this particular pool has its own rules, they need to be clearly publicised when enrolling. But I suspect it doesn't and it was just this one employee making it up.

I have two friends with sons - one boy has long hair and wears typical boyish clothing. It is 50/50 whether someone will refer to him as a boy or a girl. The second boy has short hair but lots of hand me downs from his sister (including a pink swimming onesie). 100% girl comments

I knew more than one person would come along with examples to prove me wrong, that's the nature of mumsnet. I'm no spring chicken nowadays and I've worked in schools, special schools and playgroups. I've seen girls with short hair, or no hair, wearing boys clothes. I've seen boys with long hair wearing girls clothes (more recently). I'm absolutely confident that, given more than a passing glance, it's not very difficult at all to tell the difference between a boy and a girl.

I personally don't think that's realistic or reflective of real life. I'm always clear with my DD she doesn't have to hug/kiss/whatever anyone she doesn't want to, but what i said in my previous post is part of a wider conversation around our 'private parts'/using the correct names/etc.

We don't have to agree, but I'm pleased my 4 year old uses the correct anatomical names and knows not to show anyone her chest, vulva or bottom/anus. And I'm confident she'd tell me if someone asked to see them or touched them. Normalising nakedness in public isn't good safeguarding imo, no matter how much we all wish our kids could run around/swim/whatever free and naked.

What other reason would a preschool child with no breasts need to cover her nipples...if not for a sexualised reason???