AIBU to question a pool asking my four-year-old daughter to cover up?

I also understand where you're coming from - it's such a difficult balance. I'm uber aware of the 'sex discrimination' angle (it's literally my job!) and often find myself fighting internally with what I think is right or fair versus what I think is 'safest'. I think it's also skewed by the fact I don't have a son (one DD and won't have anymore kids) I suspect your point of view comes more naturally when you have one of each and see these kind of examples play out in practice!

I see another poster has commented on the differing ages at which girls develop and how it's easier to have a blanket rule so no one is having to argue such and such girl is too developed to be topless (and vice versa) and think this is another good reason for the rule. Imagine the accusations if a staff member was commenting on levels of development!

Agreed

A pre-teen might not have breasts either. I don’t get this line of thinking.

It is very very common for expectations around clothing to be different for men and women and both are regularly told what they should wear.

most schools have a uniform. Construction jobs have safety equipment including hard hats. Care staff usually wear a jumper or t shirt with the company name on it.

in the nhs people in operating theatres wear scrubs, nurses and healthcare professionals wear uniforms.

when I was a teacher we had a dress code and most companies have a dress code although they’re largely more relaxed than they used to be.

people are told what to wear all the bloody time.

in social situations - at weddings and funerals there are expectations around clothing - how many aibu/style and beauty threads are there along the lines of it this suitable?

many restaurants on holiday destinations (or in the uk) expect shoes and a top to be worn - I’ve seen the sign “no beach wear” in many restaurants in both the uk and abroad.

genuinely, the idea that you should be able to wear what you want when you want only works if you engage very little in society. Sure, if you are self employed computer programmer living on an island where you cut your own wood and never meet anyone, fine.

but most of us live in a world where we need to work to earn some money and so yes, other people’s opinions on what we should wear matter.

so the people who are saying it’s wrong to be told what to wear - well maybe it is but it happens all the time and the only way out of it is to withdraw from society altogether.

Is this a repost because I’ve definitely read it before?

What makes it a "man's uniform"? Men and women wear the same uniform in my job. It's described as unisex.

YANBU Nobody should be told what they must wear because they are female.
Would she have complained if it was a little boy in girls swim wear?
I have to wear a man’s uniform to work because it’s mostly men and that’s the uniform but I feel silly in it but they’d never insist a man had to wear a dress and just say well that’s the uniform because it would be embarrassing for him and he’d also feel silly but woman have to wear what they are told.

I’ve just been on holiday and a lot of German and Dutch families were also there. I would say it was rarer to see a girl under about 8 wearing a top / one piece and every one that was covered was British. No one was at all concerned so it seems standard practice in other countries

The policy if that's what it is sounds ridiculous. I would definitely check that out.
However you were very unreasonable to accuse the staff member of 'sexualising' your daughter. That term has the specific meaning of seeing a person as a sexual object.
The vast majority of adults do not do this in any way shape or form and it's very wrong that the term seems to have gained popularity when what is really being referred to are sexist clothing conventions and/or age appropriate attire.
People who talk about how covered children should be are not the ones sexualising them. They are trying to protect them from sexualisation by others; or in this case, imposing sexist and ridiculous dress codes.
This woman was doing the latter. She is highly unlikely to be a pedophile and your comment literally speaking, implied she was.

Why were you surprised?

Oh good grief! That is OTT. What a strange message to send to children about their bodies .

We have the opposite rule in Germany. Nobody has to wear at top but most women/older girls choose to wear a bikini top or one piece swim suit.

They should be a snug fit but they don't need to be so tight that they are hard to get on and off. There shouldn't be any need for wrestling or special manoeuvres.

This is inherently problematic - if someone is in trouble then their modesty is not what is important.

Women are over 30% less likely to receive timely CPR in a medical emergency because most initial emergency care is usually bystander CPR and people are worried about touching a woman’s chest. Women are also less likely to receive defibrillation successfully from a public defib because people are unwilling to take off someone’s bra, and you can’t shock someone’s heart properly with metal underwires…. https://www.sja.org.uk/cpr-bra/

I understand your concern but I do not think paedophiles are discouraged by little girls covering their chests. I see no good reason to differentiate how we dress boys and girls or how we educate them re safeguarding when they are little. All children tend to want more body privacy as they get towards the years before puberty and their behaviour regards eg running around with few/no clothes on at the beach changes spontaneously. The specific risks to girls re their developing bodies are more appropriately addressed when they are a bit older. If you do not cover your son's chest or talk to him about it at age 4 or 6 there is no need to do so with your daughter of the same age. In fact, I would go so far as to say it is harmful to girls to over focus on their bodies/treat their bodies differently from boys when they are very young. If there is any evidence that the uncovered prepubescent female chest raises risks for girls more than it does for boys obviously I would differentiate but otherwise I think it is really important that both little boys and girls enjoy their bodies and beach/waterplay unfettered by these concerns. I hope it goes without saying that there obviously do need to be conversations with small children about the privacy of their genital areas etc.

This happened with my niece in Disney, Orlando about 20 years ago, she was around 6 years old. Staff asked us to put a top on her when we were at the pool. I remember thinking that it was all innocent, but their take was about the risk of pervs ogling kids or taking photos.

After spotting a man hiding behind a notice board and taking sneaky photos of children getting off a tram to go and see a children's show at the MEN arena a few years ago, I totally get it. It is a sad indictment of the world we live in today.

Because it starts like that. Then it progresses to things like the dance college local to me where the male uniform is still white t-shirt and black shorts but the girls' uniform is now fishnets, heels, hot pants, crop top and bright red lipstick. For class. Every day. Because 'that's what the industry expects'. Society starts ingraining differences early and that's the kind of thing we end up accepting. I would have loved to wear shorts and t-shirt for dance classes but it never even occured to me that it was an option for a girl.

Having said that, I can see why leisure centres have to have a blanket rule for girls. Girls can start developing breasts at 8 or still be competely flat chested at 13. What staff member wants to start a conversation with a girl or their parent about whether or not they could be viewed as having breast tissue or not?! Easier to just follow convention.

I think you also misunderstand what sexualising a child means. It is not the same thing as having sexual thoughts about a child. It's applying post pubescent concepts to prepubertal children. A 4 year old has nothing to cover up in her top half. Also covering up bottom halves is basic hygiene at a leisure centre. Besides, exposed genitalia is NOT the same thing as having a bare chest as a 4 year old girl.

The child was not wearing an item of clothing which is normally worn in that place. It isn’t looking at a child in a sexual way to think “how odd, girls normally wear tops in here”. You can reasonably argue it is part of a wider culture of expecting women and girls to cover up body parts when men and boys don’t have to, but that isn’t the same as accusing an individual of thinking sexual thoughts about a child. If the children weren’t wearing bottoms would you say the same? Because there’s nothing inherently wrong with small children being naked, and it was completely normal on the beach when I was young. People would definitely think it odd these days though.

She’s a little girl, not a political statement. Just put a standard swimming costume on her and let her enjoy her time in the pool. I disagree with sexism as much as anyone else but leave your daughter out of it.

Are tankini suits common in the UK? The two-piece swimsuits for girls where the top part is a tank top, as opposed to a “bra” for little girls with no breasts? I understand not wanting to put a little girl in a bra top.

I think that once a little girl is old enough to be taught that some body parts are private, it’s a good idea to have her cover her chest in public, because that will be the expectation for the rest of her life.

I have taken two small children, or a baby and a 4 year old on my own swimming many many many times - at no point have i ever thought small DD is hyper lively so i shouldn't attempt to put a swimming costume on her, bit lazy and I honestly don't recall ever seeing a 4 year old girl without a swimming costume.