AIBU to ask why French high streets seem to thrive?

Agree.

Small villages around us lost their little shops and bars years ago. In our own village every two-three years someone tries to get a cafe going (subsidised from village funds), usually lasts a year or so then folds due lack of business - we're somewhere not that touristy or on a main road.

The high street in our local small industrial town has definitely seen a decline over the last 20 years but it's still sort of OK. What does appear to happen is if a store goes out of business new owners move in, do it up, grand opening...then six months/year later store closes and it's rinse and repeat- might be down to subsidies for start ups,don't know.

Big city up the road has several massive out of town shopping centres.

Supermarkets definitely do exist.

Amazon works here.

Sunday opening depends on Departmental rules (or used to) and is usually AM only.

French supermarkets are much more heavily regulated than English ones. Opening hours are shorter, and they’re not allowed to sell regulated products like tobacco or medicine.

That means that if you want cigarettes or paracetamol then you have to go into the pharmacy or tabac, protecting at least two high-street shops.

French culture around food and wine is very different from English culture. In the uk there is an underlying assumption that buying good food (bakery bread, farmers market veg, butchers meat, wine from a wine shop, cooking from scratch) is older people or middle class or aspirational. In France it is just the norm, and people spend a significantly higher percentage of income on food.

This means that there is a much larger segment of the population who use independent food shops.

You need to think of it the other way round. Most countries have thriving high streets. I used to live in australia and now live in a northern european country. Both with good shopping in centres.

It's the uk that is the anomaly.

We were on holiday in France this year and were due to travel back to the UK by ferry on a Sunday. Our car broke down. OMG, the additional difficulties that were posed by it being a Sunday.

It did make us appreciate the UK in that way.

We will not book any further travel to France arriving or leaving on a Sunday.

Shorter working week, more time to shop ad hoc

That's interesting about ready meals. Our local French supermarkets sell hardly any ready meals, far fewer than in the UK.

Most people here buy fruit, veg, meat and cheese from the market and just top those up at the supermarket. Bread is bought each morning from one of the bakeries and, despite a falling population (as is the case across much of rural France), the coffee shops in are thriving. Restaurants aren't though. The small rural population, distances between towns and lack of visitors in winter means many empty restaurant buildings.

True about lower housing costs as well. Things have changed though, I’ve been visiting family there for nearly 40 years (in the south). Supermarkets have become more common particularly big ones, more UPFs, convenience foods. Big supermarket do open on Sunday & some no longer close for lunch.

You are so spoiled here in the UK!

Indeed. When I was a child in the 60s before the advent of the supermarket, we'd have to queue at the butchers, queue at the green grocers, queue at the fishmongers, queue at the bakery, queue at the corner shop for tinned & packet goods and eggs. It was incredibly time-consuming . Now we've got all that under one roof from morning til midnight and behind- fabulous! And our supermarkets sell over the counter medication - I don't think they do that in Spain - hence all the pharmacies!

In my part of the East Midlands there are several thriving high streets - Bingham, West Bridgford, Radcliffe for examples. Coffee shops - chains and independents - bring a lot of people to the high street which I think is rather lovely. People socialising or having a coffee alone with the buzz of other people.

I bloody love the UK.

High business rates and high rents, greedy landlords, in the UK, has killed the high st.

You can't take any experience that you may have had in August and extrapolate it to being true all year round.

Yes, in August (and late July) you can drive through French towns where "nothing" is open. But that's because it's the summer and the French are big on proper summer holidays (3 weeks off work is normal/sometimes obligatory, 4 weeks is not shocking).

I live in a large city in SE France. Loads of high street shops and an absolutely enormous out of centre shopping complex. There is amazon as PPs have said, but deliveries take at least a week and I personally try to avoid it.

If you want to see busy shops in France, try the end of August when everyone is buying for going back to school/work!

It could simply be weather, its walmer people will be out longer.
When ive been to spsin its the same more people out in th evenings visiting bars and cafes boosting the economy.
Here in uk we dont have that so we are not brought up in s society where we have learnt to spend time out of our homes

Also what kills many UK high streets is the lack of parking.

Years ago when diesel was so cheap in France, we had holidayed in the Loire and driven to calais, planning to buy diesel at Calais then board ferry home. Was a Sunday. Could we find anywhere that sold fuel on a Sunday? Nada. They had pay at the pump options (this was years before us in the UK) but UK cards would not yet work. Like you we said never arrive.or depart on a Sunday!

It's because you're not allowed to sell even basic medicines like paracetamol or ibuprofen in supermarkets but have to get them from a pharmacy 🤷🏻‍♀️

In a little village in France that we visit a lot, we've lost 75% of the local village shops - we used to have 2 pharmacies (now 1), 2 bakers (now 1), a bar tabac (now only the posh hotel bar), and there's a butcher and a co-op (used to be 2 small shops). There are still 2 hairdressers though!!!

Lower land prices and business rents. In Britain the only value is exploitative profit for the few. Europe has not entirely given up on other things.

What I’ve noticed in France is that self-service checkouts haven’t taken off. Good on ‘em, they’re choosing not to be totally ruled by computers in the way the U.K. is.

There is Amazon in France, but there are lots of regulations for online retail. Not allowed to sell a book online for less than retail price. Not allowed to offer free shipping. There is a compulsory registration scheme and tax for packaging even if sent into France from overseas. In addition to import duty/VAT etc. This all makes online shopping slightly more clunky and expensive. Then the cultural habit of shopping in person is easier to maintain.

Protected lunchtimes might be inconvenient if you are not used to it, but it is better for shop workers and enables shops to stay open later which is useful for customers who work during the day. The UK high street is set up for households with a housewife who can do the shopping during the working day. That’s a vanishing situation. At the moment we have a very large number of retired people - when this generation dies off, who will be around during the working day to go to the shops? A few shift workers and the unemployed? If the high street wants to survive, it needs to adapt.

@chateaumargaux ah yes, the ‘exceptionalment ferme’
Intermarche (twice), Credit Agricole - numerous, and the Tax Office.
My T5 has been with the garage since June to have a new alternator fitted.
Your entire post is bang on.
I’m currently having a long weekend in the UK - accidental chazzing on Thursday, Friday, Ivy brunch, M&S, B&M & B&Q, returned windscreen wipers & Brake Fluid to Halfords - immediate refund - no huffing & puffing or downright refusal.
Today I need to collect something from Oliver Bonas, so a quick trip to Lakeside.
It’s so lovely to not have to work out which shop is open as it’s Monday/Tuesday, do they shut at 12, 12.15, 12.30? Our local restaurant shuts for three weeks in the school holidays - just when the ex-pats friends are visiting and the French tourists anre anrriving in droves. They would be full all week. Lots of places shut in the ‘big town’ for congees.
France of course is not just about the shopping, but it is like organising a military campaign sometimes. The OP didn’t say where she had this experience, but in normal France as opposed to tourist France, it’s very different. Amazon is now booming here, but while French employment tax is so high and the working week is so short, it is not possible to take on extra staff, shops are open shorter & shorter hours and put up prices to cover the shortfall.

Someone mentioned we don’t buy cheap Chinese imports? Of course we do! Temu & Shein (exactly the same goods, but not arranged in a boutique) are gaining ground. The government have resorted to a levy on their goods.
Visitors forget, France is a Socialist Republic - but those of us who live here are reminded every day.

As for the - French supermarkets are amaaaaazing, such quality, so cheap, they don’t eat ready meals 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I can’t remember the last time I bought lamb, beef is like old boots and I buy a lot of pork.
The French buy a lot of bread because it’s cheap! My local boulangerie only opens 4 days a week because of staff costs.

It’s a bit like going to Chipping Norton for a week and going home to France saying how rich the British are. Where were you OP? Côte d’Azur? Annecy? Sarlat?

They have thriving high streets because people use them. Butchers, cheesemongers, bakeries, fishmongers, greengrocers etc. The British tend to prefer the supermarket plastic wrapped food.

We were in Montpellier recently. Saturday in the shopping streets in the city were rammed. As was the indoor shopping mall.

I think we went with the American model
and had malls and chains. France is more individual, independent shops. I think this is why we were historically at war with Europe as we don’t have much in common with them aside from location. We seem far more linked to America culturally.

Really? Whenever I’ve been in France I’ve always wondered how places survive. Streets empty and most shops seem shut most of the time.

@SomeoneIsWrongOnTheInternet

What I’ve noticed in France is that self-service checkouts haven’t taken off. Good on ‘em, they’re choosing not to be totally ruled by computers in the way the U.K. is.

Oh they're here alright, in increasing numbers.

Couple of the large local DIY (B&Q equivalent) stores are now almost totally self service, and there are more and more in supermarkets.

Introduction might be a bit slower than the UK because labour laws make it harder to lay off staff without a very good reason but as older check out staff retire I suspect they aren't being replaced..

Mind you the supermarkets might have to keep some human beings on checkouts to handle customers who insist on using cheques..