AIBU to think people are less sociable and friendly nowadays?

@cheeseomelette yeah it's sad. I don't have OPs confidence and the last thing I'd ever want is to illicit some of these responses which means I don't bother with anyone. I'd hate to think people like OP are no longer going to be friendly just because of a minority of people who find it too much effort to "mask" by saying a few kind words to someone. I'll bet the only time some of them speak to a stranger is to shout at them for being in their way in the supermarket.

Reminds me of this vid though which always gives me a laugh-

If someone sat next to me on the bus/train when there were other seats available and then started trying to make conversation, I’d be pissed. Don’t do that, weirdo. Sitting alone and staring out the window is practically the universal sign for “ leave me the fuck alone.”

My God. You sound absolutely insufferable.

@cheeseomelette you talk about a lack of tolerance towards people who might be neurodivergent but a lot of neurodivergent people just want to be left alone and couldn’t think of anything worse than being approached by a stranger and forced into making small talk.

But this is a choice. I can step away from here whenever I fancy, ignore posters that don’t interest me or who rub me up the way - it’s not remotely comparable to a conversation in person where you have no choice other than to keep responding else you have to find a way to extract yourself without looking like a total cow.

I’m actually more than happy to chat to people in real life (like, in a queue or when I’m walking my dog) but if I have my head in my phone or I’m staring out of the window, those should (to me anyway) be fairly obvious clues that I want to be left in peace.

Bullshit. We interact perfectly normally in the correct context.

It's just that nobody likes a Bus Nutter

Oh god, this is why I stopped using public transport.

It's my face, I've been told I look very friendly and approachable (sort of the opposite of resting bitch face).

I tried the headphones/book/looking away trick. I also tried looking annoyed, but would still end up uncomfortable and forced into a 20 minute conversation to meet a stranger's needs. Sometimes that was the only peace I got in a day and I'd end up pointlessly learning someone elses entire life story.

I stick to going out in the car or with DH now (he has a very haughty bitch face which people avoid, depsite being lovely!).

You might enjoy chitchatting, but lots of people don’t. In the examples you have given it would have been better to back off when you noticed the other person wasn’t keen to engage rather than keep pushing. They might have been more open to chatting another time, but will probably try to avoid you now.

Look I completely get that some of the OP's behaviour is a bit full on for a lot of people. I would have been highly irritated in the bus example.

My point is broader than this: it's that we seem to have undergone a societal shift in the past ten or so years where what used to be seen as normal "friendliness" is now regarded as antisocial behaviour.

You're right that there's always been a significant proportion of people who found social chit-chat difficult and hard to navigate but in the past they were expected to just crack on. I don't think it's a wholly bad thing that we are now more aware of what a burden this is on people. I don't, for example, think people should have to tolerate someone boring on at them for hours under the "be kind" justification. I don't think its one person's job to manage someone else's neediness in social situations.

But I think the pendulum has swung so far in the other direction that we have drawn the line about acceptable behaviour too far. I don't think, for example, that its unreasonable to pass comment on the weather with strangers in public, or that its rude to start chatting to someone in the queue for an exercise class, providing you are alert to the signs changing. People are usually big enough to take care of themselves and the idea that you "intrude" on someone by passing a handful of words with them in public is ridiculous, in my view.

I think the groundrules have shifted to accommodate a loose group of people who are now called "introverts" (but who mostly are not properly introverts) too much, at the expense of normal basic social interaction and it's allowed a lot of people to let their fairly normal social anxieties rule the roost. Its not healthy to go through life believing you have an inalienable right to never talk to other people.

And, while being respectful of people's boundaries, I think we ought to remain open to the benefits of spontaneous social contact, as we lose a lot if we make it taboo.

You can have as much spontaneous social contact with others as you like provided you are sure it is welcome. It’s not a difficult concept. Yet people assume it’s all or nothing.

I’m not sure why I should be expected to indulge a stranger’s inability to read the room. It couldn’t be clearer that I’m not interested. The people in the OP couldn’t have made it clearer (even in her own telling of the story) yet she carried on.

If someone makes a comment about the weather or whatever, and you reply, that is never the end of it. The chatty people have become less socially aware of cues. That is also something that has happened at the same time as people not wanting to chat so it’s hardly surprising we have seen a societal shift.

@Thepeopleversusworkbut lots of people aren’t interested in random social contact - it might make your day nicer or more pleasant but it’s not true for everyone.

One person’s need to chat and make small talk is not more important than another’s’ desire to just be left alone.

OP has shown with her example that she’s not great at reading the room - she’s also started a thread to moan about people’s lack of friendliness and has then proceeded to fuck off and ignore all the answers! Not exactly polite or supportive of social contact…

I'm quite a sociable person. The first two scenarios, I would have been friendly and chatted for a bit especially. I would have reacted the same as the woman on the bus in the third situation. If I'm traveling alone, it's my time to unwind and think. I wouldn't want to make small-talk with a stranger.

You would know by reading social cues and being able to work out who could potentially be open to it, The same way humans have navigated social contact forever.

Ironically the ones who love chatting and getting to know others are often the worst at reading the room. It never used to be this bad. Someone could remark on the weather, I could smile and reply and then get on with my book or whatever and we would both get on with our day.

I think part of the issue is that people used to understand when further chat was welcome or not so would act accordingly. Now we get behaviour like the OP’s so people are more hostile about it.

I would of course chat at a social function or work thing. That’s what you have to do and that’s why you are there.

There’s also a decent chance you have something in common already.

But people assume that even with headphones, dark glasses, not looking at people, reading my book, resting bitch face and giving monosyllabic answers, their attentions are welcome.

I broadly agree with this now it’s a bit more balanced. For me it was only ever the ‘providing you are alert to the signs changing’ that was the problem from the op, who wasn’t at all and carried on after the message was clear. If we are to talk of tolerance and accepting of others, then that needs to include the people who really don’t want to interact.

I actually assumed when I read the op that that person must be joking for the way they went on and on after the clear no, a made up thread to wind people up. But it doesn’t matter, interesting topic regardless of the intent of the opener.

My mother used to chat to random strangers so what should have been a one hour shopping trip took all morning. So annoying.

There's a woman on our local Tesco checkout who will start telling you stuff completely ouf of thjn air. On Friday it was "I got my new glasses yesterday". No reaction from me as I kept packing. The she wittered on about her appointments and the different kinds she could have chosen, each time stopping putting items through.

I hope the people behind could see I wasn't encouraging her.
Just ring my shopping through.

@Thepeopleversuswork I totally agree with you. I see a huge shift which I just don’t think is entirely positive. I don’t think Covid helped by framing social contact as being dangerous for so long.

I think the concept of having “social skills” or appreciation of their value in society has really diminished. My parents really modelled it all to me and I think I’ve done the same with the dcs. They are friendly, polite and will hold a basic conversation with strangers with ease when required. it’s served them well at work too.

I am not talking about being harassed here or having conversation repeatedly forced on them when it’s clearly not welcome - nobody wants that nor should ever need to put up with it.

Bus chatters have always existed and are generally a harmless, if irritating, quirk of public transport.

Sorry OP, I think your interactions were shut down a little abruptly but you were also quite full on.

Example 1- "Sheila" should could have been slightly politer in saying "please excuse me but I must..." - which I would have done- but then you butted in on her and also ignored her cues that she considered the interaction over. Also if there are lots of empty tables and you choose to sit with someone who has clearly been briefly polite but brushed you off to go back to what they are doing - which might have been important- then I can see why that person might move in case you keep on at them. It is the same as sitting right next to someone on an empty bus or train to me.

Example 2 - this one was rude of the other lady. She could have said something less sarky and excused herself. However, you have no idea why she didn't want a chat and if she was in position and ready to start, why should she move. She clearly headed you off at the pass so to ask another question of her ignored her cue to you. I think I would have said something less sarky but quite non committal and closed and answered that way again to hope you'd stop. Eventually I might have reached for my phone, too.

Example 3- ignoring empty seats to cosy up to strangers on public transport is a huge no no. Most people don't talk on public transport and the person you boxed in was clearly already looking out the window. She politely replied to you and then went back to it - plenty of people would've ignored you outright - and you then ignored her cue to be left alone which is rude.

I absolutely hate being sat next to on otherwise empty busses and trains. It is extremely presumptuous and I wonder what point the people who do it are trying to make. Particularly if they then proceed to chat - they seem to think they're some sort of star attraction. I had to change a regular commute train carriage once because I went back to the office after the pandemic and realised a chatter had started commuting on it, too. She ignored all cues that I didn't want to talk whenever I ended up near her as I simply didn't find her that engaging and I wanted to read in peace- my preferred commute past time. So I started getting in a different carriage instead, and having to then hop off the train at a point where it did not line up with the platform v well with a huge gap. I always choose aisle seats, too - so people insisting on being let in to sit next to me in an otherwise empty carriage, I find very weird.

I've had colleagues introduce themselves to me in the kitchen on my breaks before and I think it's nice and that they're very socially adept and confident. That said, no one has proceeded to then follow me about when I've said "it's nice to have met you, lmk if I can help you with x or y" and headed off to my desk with my food.

I am pretty chatty overall. I just don't assume everyone wants to talk or that one comment = a conversation that must be kept going. I don't think society shifting to be less accommodating to people like OP is particularly bad or sad. People are busier now. No surprise they guard their down time more fiercely. Maybe they value their alone time with whatever they do on their phones, maybe they try and knock through personal admin as it's their only time to do so. Maybe an hour at boxercise is their only escape. No one owes OP an explanation, including perma-drained commuters!

I happily give directions, help people at self checkouts etc. l am capable of kindness.

But perhaps the decline in social contact has stemmed from the lack of ability of many extrovert people to understand the way it works.

If someone is clearly not distracted by phone, book etc then by all means smile and say something casual about the weather or whatever. If they smile, agree and look away, that is your cue to stop interacting.

If the other person continues the interaction, then they clearly are amenable to a general chat.

There are however a lot of people like the OP who don’t understand that part, This makes those of us who don’t want to be saddled with someone very wary of any interactions

Social skills involve reading the room and are indeed a valuable skill, I can do the small talk etc.

Someone who ignores indications that someone wants to be left alone does not have good social skills.

The only okay thing the OP did was introduce herself to the colleague. At that point it was clear that she didn’t want to chat. Everything else after that was out of line, including approaching the people in the gym and on the bus.

The pandemic did seem to remove people’s ability to read social cues. I noticed that once people got used to restrictions being removed and we got back to normal, people became more tactile with strangers too - presumably because they had missed being able to do it during COVID.

Until then I had never had to ask a stranger not to touch me but suddenly people would think it was okay to touch your arm or shoulder. Or even casual acquaintances hugging when they greeted you.

100% this. I wish I had written it. It describes exactly how and why British society has changed.

MN illustrates this perfectly on a daily basis. Entitlement is baked in.

And only on mn is being an extrovert seen as being the very worst crime imaginable.

Isn’t it just as entitled to assume you can approach a stranger and force them into chatting with you?

I'm autistic so social skills don't come naturally to me but your being to intense. Some people just need a minutes peace and quiet.
Very different to a basic polite conversation.

My breaks at work are ‘protected ’ out of those 13hrs am at work that 1 hr is for me myself and I.

society functions much better as a whole where people exchange small and meaningless acts of politeness and social exchange.

Holding a door open and saying Thank you in return. Letting someone go before you in a shop. Exchanging a pleasantry about the weather, or the length of the queue. Smiling at someone or saying good morning.

in none of the OP’s examples was she asking anyone to divulge their medical history or discuss Plato. Just a simple social interaction.

so no I don’t think your entitlement to your right to be unsociable trumps the perfectly normal interactions that used to make the world a much more pleasant place to live.

When I was a teenager my mom told me to always be polite and chatty with older people as I might be the only person they chat to today. That could be true of anyone, not just older people.