Dependent sibling and elderly parents. What what happens when parents are gone?

My Dad has had this problem with his (much younger) half brother. There's a 25 year age gap and he's only a couple of years older than me.

His brother is almost certainly autistic and when his mother died he was left living in the house which he can't afford. His mum left him £8000 which he thought was an enormous amount and he'd be able to survive for years off it (which gives you an idea of how dependent he was on his mother).

He struggles to live independently. He's in his early 50s. The trouble is without a diagnosis he's rather screwed.

My parents eventually persuaded him to put the house on the market but he's now been on for twelve months because he won't drop the price because the reality is he doesn't want to move. He will eventually lose the house if he carries on. It's in a state though because he can't look after himself.

He lives more than 200miles from my parents who are in their 70s so not in a position to really help. They are supporting at arms length because they realise that a) the age difference means he may become my problem if they help more b) he almost has to fail before social services can step in and help him with supported living because he will end up with an assessment.

The whole thing is ridiculous in a way but they are powerless to do much more.

My dad no longer is taking his calls for everything under the sun (including how to deal with the smoke alarm when the battery is flat and changing a lightbulb). My mum is much more patient so she mostly deals with him.

My Dad had conversations with his Dad and Step Mother for years before they died. They were largely in denial and didn't do anything. He has found it enormously frustrating.

I do think you have to make a conscious decision about what's in the best interests of everyone here - including yourself.

The reality is you have a husband and kids and this means there's limits to how much you can take your sister on and given she has a history of drug abuse you have little choice but to keep her at arms length.

Even if she stays in the house, if she has no income she will not be able to stay in it because she won't be able to afford to maintain it, run it and pay council tax with no job. This is your conversation starter with your parents about what provision she might need. The reality is she will be better off if the house is left to you both precisely because you can force a sale and this will force her to down size to something she can maintain and afford long term.

You can not get involved too much because of the implications to your children. You will need to be prepared to go legal if she harasses you for this reason too.

In terms of what support she might get, if she has assets, she will get little support before she's lost it all. That's one of the frustrations my Dad has that he has limited options available to his brother until that point because he is refusing a diagnosis pathway. My Dad has put a few things in place but it's not really enough. So again, leaving the whole house to her probably really isn't in her best interests because that just delays access to support she may need as there will be no identified problem if she's off the drugs.

So even though you might feel obliged to try and help your sister because really careful here about how it will impact your family and whether that ultimately will help your sister. You have this situation where letting her fail without your support may be in her best interests long term because you don't know how long either of you will be around for. The last thing you want is for her to become a burden to your survivors if you go first.

I wish I had some solutions. My parents really don't have any apart from waiting for the inevitable crash before they can help his action / access anything else. They understand this and find it hard but don't know of an alternative that will work for the rest of his life. Their age makes this particularly concerning though my uncles lifestyle is so poor and his health not great my Dad may yet outlive him (my grandfather lived to 95).

I don't have any contact with him - my parents have made a point of telling me not to now with all of the above in mind.

Whaaaat! Just wild behaviour

Mate that's not the least of it. Mil is 97 until recently she had her walking a mile to pay for meat at the local butchers...
Surprisingly, sil has fallen out with that butchers

I have been in a similar situation where a sibling was still dependent on parent when they passed away. I live several hours away so they were thrown in at deep end learning how to run a house (home was rented). They have coped but needed lots of support initially and their health means they receive disability benefits which help with practical things like cleaning etc. Sadly there is very little support from other agencies if you are seen as functioning even at a basic level

Once she hits 55 she will be eligible for local authority older persons housing, which means she would get housing benefit to cover the rent and would have no maintenance responsibilities.

Unreal behaviour to let her walk, god these ppl!

Slightly different situation. Sil is lazy just not bothered working, her late husband was a drunken bum ... Both waiting for his parents to die. They did any they got nothing!!

Now when mil goes, who basically supports sils life, it's going to be fucking 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

She's going to get very little as mil mainly has a good pension, which will go and there are 3 kids...so she's stuffed

And if anyone says anything sil got a brand new car 15 years ago "to drive us about" when fil was still with us....she has taken mil to the supermarket, where mil pays for her shopping. She's never taken mil to the nearest town in 15 years. She refused last summer to drive mil to see her sister who was visiting for from abroad..she made her aunt walk 2 miles...she's 90 years old...

Don't take this responsibility on OP. Leave it to professionals and let support fall into place. If you get involved, you will spend the rest of your life being her advocate, sorting everything out, shelving your own needs and relationships, and can literally reduce your own lifespan due to the stress. I'm not exaggerating.
The irony is, she won't thank you for it, your life will be full of guilt trips, poor me whining and drama.
Parents need to sort out a sensible and well thought out will, and have difficult convos with her sooner than later, to avoid your life being marred by indecision. Sounds harsh, but unfortunately they have fostered a codependency and they need to help create a plan for the future. It will be a lot kinder to get a plan straightened out now, with her in the loop, than allowing a 'what now' situation to happen once they're gone.
I know, because my grandparent left the family with implied responsibility for an extremely chaotic member of extended family whom I have now cut off due to their absolutely horrific behaviour over inheritance and refusal to accept any reasonable help. I have often thought that my grandparent checked out with only thought for them and not for the harm they caused to the wider family, distracting from our grief.
There's professional support out there and honestly it will be more effective and boundaried. The local authority and relevant charities will have support options, don't be a rescuer, just let them do their jobs, it will be better all round. I wish we'd done that instead of dealing with the chaos and horrid behaviour.

You said they want to buy her a house. Can they buy it and rent it out so she has somewhere to go after they are gone.

My dh’s dsis was a bit chaotic, her inheritance went into a trust to provide an income to top up benefits or income, but she wasn’t living with parents at least. Definitely need to ensure any will is written in the correct way and consider the best way to deal with inheritance and leaving the house to sell. Moving into independent housing sooner would be better

I have a similar situation. Youngest sister mid30s has had a chronic illness since early teens and has always lived with our parents. My mum in particular babies her a lot. Middle sister and I agree that neither of us will have her to live with us. We have told our parents that surely it is better for youngest sister to become independent with them nearby to help her transition, instead of doing it alone whilst bereaved. They agree in theory and do nothing in practice. It is very very hard to watch - my sympathies to you, your situation sounds even more complicated than mine.

My mother is in exactly this position with her drug-addicted brother.
She has decided to stay out of it, and force the sale of the house once her mother passes. The will is 50/50 and my mum has power of attorney and is executor of the will. Half the house sale will allow him to buy a nice one-bed flat, but there is no way my uncle will be able to live independently. She might reach out to some charities to see if they can help him, but I don’t think she will do much beyond that. He’s such an awful person, I think she’ll be glad to never see him or deal with him again once her mother passes.

It sounds to me that despite what your parents say, that your sister will inherit their house and live there.

And, rather cynically, I think she’ll take to doing the admin like a duck to water in that scenario.

Possession is nine tenths of the law, she’s lived there so long that your parents will feel she should have the house she’s familiar with, especially as you’re settled.

It’s not fair but it happens every day.

downsizing would be ideal in this situation pp.

I have to admit I’m extremely annoyed with my parents for not doing more about the situation while they still can. I know they say they want to sort something out for her, but years keep passing and nothing actually changes. I try not to think about it too deeply because I know it would start to affect my relationship with my parents

Thing is, OP, they'll all have convinced themselves that you'll pick up the pieces when the time comes, and therefore won't feel any real need to move her into a better position before they go. I have friends who are doing the same with their eldest son, and that's with their younger one living abroad with no intention of returning

All you can do is to make it very clear you won't be the carer, then ask - and go on asking - what she's going to do about being supported

Do you have financial or medical power of attorney for them? I’d suggest getting that if not. It could be one way to introduce solicitors advice in this scenario.

My SIL lived with MIL and ignored her ill health and deliberately blocked access to the house. MIL finally left the house in an ambulance and died two weeks later. SIL and BIL stripped the house of everything.

Have they thought of downsizing and if they bought another place for her, keeping it in their name?

Our family have been in a similar situation. And left with the fallout when the last parent passed. In fact, it can get worse when one parent dies.

I would try and get them to make a will where they state that the house should be sold / split between you within a set time with your sister's money in Trust or similar to primarily to be used for a home for her.

Warn them if she left on her own in the property she is vulnerable to a cuckoo situation or similar. Also face the fact that if one parent dies, your sister can then apply pressure on the remaining one to change the will.

A female friend of mine over 50 (no addictions or other disabilities) who works full time as a care assistant lived in a shared house with other women, she put herself on the council’s housing list & it did take 5 years for her to be offered a flat, but she was given a studio flat on a local estate.
This was only about 3 years ago, so it is possible to get a HA / council tenancy when you already have a place to live. I don’t know if there’s criteria that need to be filled, it may be area dependent.

But obviously the issue for your sister would be actually keeping her tenancy as many HA are quite strict about rent being paid on a regular basis.

One friend has schizophrenia, she was mid 30s & given a HA flat; unfortunately she was very vulnerable especially to predatory men; one ‘boyfriend’ stole a £10k inheritance from her; she was unable to keep up with her rent and had to move back in to her parents’ overcrowded 3 bed terrace.. which made her ill as she really did not get on with them. Sadly she does now often sleep with men for money (and affection).. and still lives ‘at home’ in variable health.

So although it would be great if your sister had a flat to live in independently (either bought or a HA tenancy) - is she actually capable of that, given her addiction issues? She would be extremely vulnerable.

Another friend of mine, who has died aged 54, had schizoaffective disorder & developed addiction issues when she fell victim to cuckooing.

Maybe you could contact adult social services for advice regarding your sister. She may be suitable for some kind of supported living? Or at least she may be able to get the assistance of a support worker eg for addictions / mental health.
The problem is she will need to be keen to actually engage with these services. So you could have a chat with her and see what she is open to.
Good luck.

Ive met lots of people in this situation. Your not being grabby wanting your parents to make a will it needs to be done.

I understand why you're suggesting this, but it could leave the OP with a decision in future of either giving up all her rights to what could be a frankly life changing amount of inheritance, or spending a lot of time, stress and tens of thousands of pounds of legal costs to evict her sister from the joint property. That's what happened to my friend (whose brother lived with his parents in a large London house and expected to just stay in it)
I appreciate no one wants to appear grabby but I can't imagine many would want be prepared to walk away to 'keep the peace' in that scenario, and a few awkward conversations now could potentially avoid that happening.

She is assuming that if she stays put she will become de-facto owner of your parents house when they die, as you will not evict her. She may have a half-baked plan to then take in lodgers to keep an income stream. There's no benefit to her for moving out so she won't unless she is forced to.

Does she actually have any diagnosis or identified health issue that might make her the problem of adult social care rather than your problem?

Hello, firstly, what a pickle! But one many families face. I'm just going to concentrate on my major piece of advice - persuade your parents to enrol at a carers centre. Then enrol yourself at the same carers centre in your own right.
They can give emotional support, coping strategies, practical advice. All equally important. Info on wills is vital, planning for what happens if your parents become ill, power of attorney for your parents, but also exploring mental health and addiction support and supported accommodation, for your sister now, rather than only when it becomes a problem in the future.
The scenarios don't bear thinking about, one of your parents becomes ill, or both do, care would need to be provided for them, how will your sister cope with less support?

Carers centres can help your parents focus on practicalities, future planning and how mental health and addiction support can be good FOR HER, not just them. The same info would be really good for you to be able to talk to them and concentrate on the practical issues, leaving emotion off the table. And also emotional support - getting it all out is very therapeutic! Apologies I have written a whole book here 😁
Best of luck!

This is absolutely correct. My parents were advised by their solicitor to leave everything to their children to be divided equally as this would be fairest. This they did but I suspect they hoped me and my other sibling would "take care" of dependent sibling. I think we'd have been guilt tripped into doing so but it would have caused enormous resentment. Fortunately in some respects the scenario didn't arise for which I'm grateful as I wouldn't have wanted to end up resenting a sibling who we also loved. Families are complex.

In my experience no chance!

This is exactly what my mum did with sibling. I stopped pushing it as I knew mum would never throw him out. There is no easy answer but be prepared to be very hard hearted when they die or to be shafted out of any share of your inheritance.
Actually have you raised with parents what would happen if their house had yo be sold to cover care costs ?