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Original poster

AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

430 replies

boredsoscrollingonMNagain · 15/08/2026 13:57

I was on a long journey this weekend , It was a 5 and a half hour journey with one change.

our first train was massively delayed , meaning we missed our next one. But , we coped and it’s all done now and we will get compensated .

However , I was really cross at this:

We had reserved seats on both trains. We don’t travel on trains with no reserved seats as my eldest is autistic and gets distressed with nowhere to sit. He prefers a certain seat, so we always try for that, but the main thing is he has a seat. The train was taken from 9 to 4 carriages so all reservations cancelled and this first train was a 2 hr journey for us. My husband wasn’t with us and we had large cases so I was stressed ! My eldest was obviously worried - luckily we found seats and all was ok . But , when the train came in I saw a carriage empty and my worry was getting these cases on alone and having no space , so I went to the empty carriage and was turned away because it was first class. We got on fine in the end, thanks to the help of lovely strangers and we got seats right next to first class and I could see in and it said all seats were available- not reserved - and maybe 2 people in the whole carriage. For the whole journey , the other carriages were like sardines - it was awful. They announced they couldn’t get the refreshment trolley out because it was so busy ( also it was during a heatwave ) . First class was empty. I saw a family - including a woman with a tiny baby in a carrier and young children, turfed out. I saw many families struggling to find places to sit.

Now , I understand if you have paid for first class and the carriage was full of people who hadn’t , you would be angry . I agree if you have paid first class you should be able to sit in it. But if it’s empty , why were people turfed out when everyone’s reserved seats were cancelled ? I would understand if first class was busy , so all were reserved and they kept that carriage for that reason - it costs a lot . I also would understand if maybe they usually had 2 first class carriages ( I don’t know if they do ) , took one off , so kept all the first class seats for those with first class tickets , but on a first come first served basis. But to have them all free , the whole journey , with lots of people - families coming back from holiday - who reserved seats for a long journey and lost them , standing and struggling - but then keep it empty and leave people standing , and actively turn people holding babies in arms away - I found this disgusting !

Just to add - this isn’t about me wanting to go in first class , we had seats , we were ok and I did offer my seat up too.

OP posts:
CalliopeFosterBeauchamp · 15/08/2026 22:45

5128gap · 15/08/2026 14:14

I'd be very annoyed if I was crowded in regular class without a seat id paid for because they'd cancelled the previous train. The heatwave is causing issues. It's not normal service. When these things happen there are compromises to be made that cause the least issues for the fewest. Having passengers seated and spaced out comfortably as possible should take priority over people getting huffy because some people got something for free.

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I agree with this, and I’m someone who pays for first class. I’m autistic and can’t deal with loud noise in enclosed spaces, so I pay to avoid it where possible.

I feel like most people who use first class are mainly doing so because they want quiet. I’d actually rather see trains declassified but with more space and more quiet carriages. And — crucially — with guards who actually enforce the quiet rule.

It pisses me off no end when people in the quiet carriage are on video calls or having loud conversations. (And before anyone asks, yes I do ask people to stop, and sometimes I get abuse and sometimes they just refuse. I have no authority to make them, whereas a guard does. They’re quick enough to exert that authority when it’s someone sitting in first class without a first class ticket!)

Sorry for the rant! Back to the OP’s question - the train service in this country is diabolical. And it’s worse in extreme temperatures. I don’t want to see people suffering when there’s a way to stop that.

Original poster
boredsoscrollingonMNagain · 15/08/2026 22:44

HotGrapefruit · 15/08/2026 17:05

If they declassify, First Class ticket holders get the difference in cost back, so the train company loses money.

There is a loophole btw - if you book Assisted then you will often be seated in first class anyway. Worth a try in future.

Or just get First and claim the delay repay which happens more often than not these days…

What is assisted ? I have never heard of this ? I always worry on trains that even though we have booked seats , someone may be in them. My son loves the trains , he’s obsessed . But has a fear of having to stand because we once had to ( before I decided to never use a service that you can’t reserve seats on ) and it was so hot and busy. On a long journey he needs to put a movie on his phone or read a book … he can’t do that standing. So anything that could help would be a godsend .

OP posts:
Original poster
boredsoscrollingonMNagain · 15/08/2026 22:42

Mammyloveswine · 15/08/2026 16:00

Fucking hell the entitlement.. I pay for a seat on a train.. not cheap even for standard class.. if that train has carriages removed so I can’t get a seat yet there are 20 spare seats in first class then fucking use them!!!! If I was sat in first class and it was empty and they opened it up to ensure people weren’t having to stand in the fucking doorways next to toilet I wouldn’t give a shit!!!!

Totally agree. My tickets were certainly not cheap . If I was in first class and they moved someone in there so they could sit down on their journey , I wouldn’t care. I don’t think most decent people would .

OP posts:
concertinacornflake · 15/08/2026 22:38

Badbadbunny · 15/08/2026 19:39

Quite the opposite. It's been privatisation that has allowed for the modern disability-compliant rolling stock, i.e. bigger toilets, wider doors, etc. It was the old "British Rail" stock that wasn't compliant and part of the reason privatisation was needed in that the taxpayer couldn't afford to spend billions on thousands of new carriages needed to replace the non compliant ones with modern compliant ones.

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Very unusual take that seems not to account for the passage of time. British Rail was privatised nearly 35 years ago, after a long period of deliberate pre-privatisation underinvestment. Of course their stock was not reflective of 2026 standards Confused

Since that point the private TOCs have invested less than comparable state railways and in an incoherent manner - our railway is significantly behind where it would/could have been if income had gone into network/stock investment rather than shareholder/foreign investor payouts.

Original poster
boredsoscrollingonMNagain · 15/08/2026 22:37

dandeliondandy · 15/08/2026 19:47

They do keep a portion of seats free for those who buy a first class ticket on the day. Imagine this scenario, they let all folks from standard class into first class as you describe. Who gets to go in? Who decides who is more deserving? What happens if first class ticket holder gets on along the route and their seat is taken? Is the train manager expected to haul a passenger out bodily so that the first class ticket holder can sit in first class? None of those things are practical. You could always have paid to upgrade on board.

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They didn’t have to announce it , a few people walked in there and were turned away - it was empty. They could have just said yes stay here . They could have used their discretion - not sent a woman with a baby strapped to her and a toddler to try and navigate a busy train. They could have said , if someone does get on with first class ticket then you will have to move. I’m sure there are systems where people buy a seat on the train so that is then logged so no one could then get that seat.

A lot keep saying “ they could have upgraded “ but a lot of people don’t have that money. I certainly did not have a spare £90 to do it.

OP posts:
walrushurricane · 15/08/2026 22:35

Dragonflyspeeding · 15/08/2026 21:57

But when other people move seats to premium empty seats, nobody cares.

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They certainly would complain if it means they can't sit in a premium seat as a result.

estrogone · 15/08/2026 22:33

Sorry OP, if you want first class pay for it. If you can't or won't stump up thats on you. The airlines don't do it, why should the trains?

DdraigGoch · 15/08/2026 22:33

Simonjt · 15/08/2026 14:11

You can usually upgrade on board to first class for a fairly reasonable price.

Especially on weekends

Besidemyselfwithworry · 15/08/2026 22:32

does anyone know what the time frame is for leap frog the upgrade app??
unwinded if you can upgrade once the departure time of the train bas
passed. I upgraded the morning of going to London for the day to meet a friend it was £10 and amazing -
I ate and drank and read the newspaper way over the value of £10!

DdraigGoch · 15/08/2026 22:31

ExtraOnions · 15/08/2026 14:00

Nope .. if I pay for First Class, I don’t want to be sharing with people who haven’t. Part of the pleasure is the space and the quiet.

I'm pretty sure that when it's declassified you're entitled to compensation for the difference in fare.

Original poster
boredsoscrollingonMNagain · 15/08/2026 22:30

veryoldwoman · 15/08/2026 15:38

I was in first class that was declassified, I received the refund for the difference- didn’t bother me as I had already had a free coffee. I think they stopped handing out drinks once it had declassified

I second the seatfrog app. Avanti do full breakfasts on some services

That could have easily been an option here , to refund those in first class. There were only a few people there. I don’t think they should be giving free drinks etc to those who would be moved there , just the seat.

OP posts:
Original poster
boredsoscrollingonMNagain · 15/08/2026 22:28

Thanksforyourlackofthought · 15/08/2026 15:40

First class is more expensive so it stands to reason that a lot of people won't want to pay the extra and therefore there is more likelihood that the carriage will have less purchased seats and fewer bodies in there. That's one of the bonuses of paying for first class.
OP, not really sure why you asked the question because you are adamant that people should be allowed to use it at no extra cost.

That’s kind of what happens in an AIBU - you post to see what others think , but have your opinion.

OP posts:
strawberrymatcha22 · 15/08/2026 22:23

BunnyLake · 15/08/2026 19:32

What dangerous situations are you thinking? In all my decades of travelling on trains in the UK I’ve never encountered a dangerous situation, unless you mean a deranged passenger trying to kill people?

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I mean overcrowding.

takemeonholidayrightnow · 15/08/2026 22:10

Dragonflyspeeding · 15/08/2026 21:57

But when other people move seats to premium empty seats, nobody cares.

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I do!!!

ErrolTheDragon · 15/08/2026 21:59

walrushurricane · 15/08/2026 19:56

Trains are certainly not better now than in the days of British Rail!

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Maybe it depends which line/operator but the ones I’ve been on in recent years are definitely better.
And back in the days of BR I always had a suitcase strong enough to sit on, and frequently ended up doing so.

Dragonflyspeeding · 15/08/2026 21:57

takemeonholidayrightnow · 15/08/2026 20:38

Why? People pay more for premium seats in a cinema…

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But when other people move seats to premium empty seats, nobody cares.

zephyr148 · 15/08/2026 21:49

boredsoscrollingonMNagain · 15/08/2026 14:23

All seats were showing as available . Surely it’s not common for someone to turn up at a station and book first class there and then? So in that case , the seats are were showing as available because they weren’t booked ? If not , they had 3 staff in the first class carriage so they could say to a struggling family you can sit here but if someone gets on with a first class ticket you will have to move . I don’t mean give the paid for first class seats away . I mean , let people who did reserve seats but lost them , sit in the unused first class seats.

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My partner and I show up and book First on the spot regularly, more common than you might think.

walrushurricane · 15/08/2026 21:00

takemeonholidayrightnow · 15/08/2026 20:38

Why? People pay more for premium seats in a cinema…

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Yes, people pay more for better versions of things all the time and normally noone complains.

takemeonholidayrightnow · 15/08/2026 20:38

Thepeopleversuswork · 15/08/2026 14:10

I think the whole concept of First Class is ridiculous.

Why? People pay more for premium seats in a cinema…

IckyTecky · 15/08/2026 20:21

The last 3 times I've got a train home from London they've declassified first class. So it does happen, I don't know under what circumstances.

HollyhocksandPeons · 15/08/2026 20:19

First class opened you say? Recently I travelled on an over-crowded train from Euston to Carlisle, and was told that my second-class standard anytime ticket £210 return did not entitle me to a seat - I san on the luggage rack, on somebody else's suitcases (they tried to protest, btw). I had no idea, but it is true - your train ticket does not guarantee you a seat.... For two hundred quid in second class on Avanti.

TroysMammy · 15/08/2026 20:12

ExOptimist · 15/08/2026 18:24

I now always travel first class (GWR) because I think it's a much better experience which I'm happy to pay extra for. Mainly to avoid the crowds both at the station and on the train.

There are first class lounges at my station and at Paddington which you have to show your first class ticket to get into. There I can get free hot drinks, water, snacks, as well as getting those free on the train too, saves a few quid. I don't have to wait on the seething concourse. I can walk slowly to the train because I know I'll have a seat.

The seats in first are bigger and in a 1 and 2 formation so I never have to sit next to anyone as I book a single seat. First is never busy so I'm not surrounded by people.

All those things add up to a generally more pleasant experience. When I travelled first class a couple of years ago it was so much better I decided never to travel standard again.

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You missed out that there are showers in the first class lounge in Paddington.

walrushurricane · 15/08/2026 19:56

Badbadbunny · 15/08/2026 19:39

Quite the opposite. It's been privatisation that has allowed for the modern disability-compliant rolling stock, i.e. bigger toilets, wider doors, etc. It was the old "British Rail" stock that wasn't compliant and part of the reason privatisation was needed in that the taxpayer couldn't afford to spend billions on thousands of new carriages needed to replace the non compliant ones with modern compliant ones.

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Trains are certainly not better now than in the days of British Rail!

walrushurricane · 15/08/2026 19:54

Badbadbunny · 15/08/2026 19:42

Most common is severe over-crowding - we've had 3 accidents this Summer, all of which would have had a lot more injuries/fatalities if they'd been crammed like sardines.

But then there are the football hooligan specials to/from big games which are taken over by (often) drunken louts.

And also other trains with rampaging gangs on board.

There have been lots of occasions reported where the guard (sorry, Train Manager) has locked themselves in their cubicle (office) for their own safety rather than helping passengers who are being subjected to rowdy behaviour.

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It's not the job of the train manger to sort out aggressive passengers. And how would declassifying first class help?

Badbadbunny · 15/08/2026 19:47

Awkwardisfunny · 15/08/2026 18:29

Think you missed the point. It's sad how conditioned we are to accept 2nd rate as normal.

There is no reason all carriages can't be at the same standard as 1st class. It's a deliberate decision to create differences to justify price differences.

I'm sure they can come up with ways to support people with disabilities. Adjustments can be made.

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Partly, yes, to raise more revenue, but mostly because there are fewer seats in first class, as the seats are wider and there's more space between the rows, so if the whole train was the same, it would be able to carry fewer passengers in total, i.e. potentially more lost revenue and more people standing.

On an Aventi Pendolino, you're looking at a difference between 76 seats in a second class coach down to just 44 seats in first class (assuming configured to max capacity in both scenarios, i.e. no buffet, no guards/luggage compartment, so a very big difference in capacity.

As someone who (sadly) suffers the Avanti Pendolino experience regularly, they're full enough as they are, usually lots of people standing, and that's with most of the coaches as high capacity second class. If you made them all lower capacity first class, that's a lot fewer passengers if could carry safely and comfortably.