AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

I have never cared when in first class who else was in there, no.

I'm pretty grown up, I think it's psychologically unhealthy to feel concerned about this.

I think in instances like yours @boredsoscrollingonMNagain they should declassify. You paid in good faith and reserved your seats, you were lucky to get seats but many passengers weren’t, therefore had to stand. There should be a disclaimer on first class tickets that in the event of train cancellations, the carriage may require to be opened to all and a refund given? Surely that would be the sensible approach, rather than having people standing on a long journey during a heatwave!

Overcrowding on trains is a problem, not denying that.

But if people want to sit in first class then they can buy a first class ticket. Otherwise that's the risk you take with standard class, it's going to be busier and not as comfortable as first.

If I'd paid for first and then they started letting other people sit there who had only paid the standard ticket price I'd be quite annoyed and expect a refund for the difference on my ticket. You're paying for the extra space and peace away from the crowds, a guaranteed seat and refreshments.

Trains seem ridiculous these days! Cancelled/messed about so often, and if it was cheap, ok, but it isn't.
They really should get more conductors, yes that's a cost, but it would make things safer and nicer, and so many people are unemployed, it would be worth the government stepping in toe subsidise, and stick to letting people with reserved seats use them, but let anyone go in anywhere if they're not reserved.

Grow up! Do think if you have bought a product then the world should be able to use it for free?

I understand why first class is not opened as anyone who had booked that could then ask for a refund. Also if there is complimentary food/drink etc how are staff supposed to krep track. I pay the extra to travel first class for longer journeys as it is worth it for space and quiet

In extreme cases where there is overcrowding/overheating to the extent that it’s a danger to health or safety then the train should be declassified, but first class passengers should get a full refund on their ticket and perhaps some compensation as they’re not getting the experience they paid for. Equally, they should be aware that it’s a possibility when they book their ticket.

This is exactly how I would feel. If there are some decent bargains on first class with my Disabled Rail Card, I will buy a first class ticket for long journeys. In fact, I have booked a first class ticket for next Saturday. This will give me the privilege of a quiet carriage with more space and the forward facing seat l prefer. I am older and travelling alone and will thoroughly enjoy the experience. While I would not mind a case like @boredsoscrollingonMNagain, I would object if people in general were put in first class carriages simply because the rail companies have not provided enough second class carriages. I am not a snob but if I have paid extra in order to enjoy a comfortable, quiet journey, I want to keep it that way.

This is exactly how I would feel. If there are some decent bargains on first class with my Disabled Rail Card, I will buy a first class ticket for long journeys. In fact, I have booked a first class ticket for next Saturday. This will give me the privilege of a quiet carriage with more space and the forward facing seat l prefer. I am older and travelling alone and will thoroughly enjoy the experience. While I would not mind a case like @boredsoscrollingonMNagain, I would object if people in general were put in first class carriages simply because the rail companies have not provided enough second class carriages. I am not a snob but if I have paid extra in order to enjoy a comfortable, quiet journey, I want to keep it that way.

If you pay less for your ticket (standard class) then you know you are at higher probability of not getting a seat due to shortened trains / cancellations etc.

If you want a higher probability of getting a seat despite cancellations / different train formations etc, then pay the extra for first class tickets. Thats the point … and the slightly bigger seats and less passengers in the carriage overall.

its no different to paying more to have a bigger car, or fly business class and everyone knows the trains are unreliable so should plan for cancellations and changes.

Not to derail (!) this thread but is that a Qatar airlines thing to ask other passengers before moving people into first? I travel every month with work in first class on United and noone has ever asked me if I'm ok with others being moved in. What happens if another passenger says no?

Why does someone who bought a full price first class ticket need a refubd just because they are sitting next to someone with a cheaper ticket? What difference does it make to them how much someone else paid for their ticket?

Yanbu. I pay for first class as my teen has autism and can't cope with a busy train. I use the DLA benefit for it.

Even a busy 1st class is calmer than a rammed standard carriage.

It might be train line specific we were on a delayed train out of London on Thursday. They put water bottles in the carriages as some had non working air con. They also declassified first class and explained about the delay repay encouraging everyone to apply

Then what ? What difference would it make to you ? In the circumstances they should have opened the carriage up instead of making people stand in overcrowded carriages when they had specifically reserved seats.

But people book first class precisely because it isn’t usually full.
I just gave one example, another would be someone who had to work.
Obviously you take a gamble as to how empty the first class carriage will be when you book the ticket, but if the carriage was routinely filled with standard class ticket holders, or indeed routinely filled, people would stop paying for first class. This would impact the cost of running the service.

Exactly. All regular users would end with increased fares.
It’s bad enough paying the crazy high regular peak time fares as it is. Reading to Paddington is a 23 minute ride. Its costs over £60 return at peak time and you are usually standing

On some train lines they have a thing where you can pay a less expensive “standard premium” on the day if standard class turns out to be back, just for the seat and no food or anything included, and that works quite well if you’re happy to pay a small fee on the train.

I think they should definitely declassify in the circumstances you outline - trains cancelled or made shorter, so lots of people missed out on seat reservations they were expecting.

So if someone has to miss out, it’s better that people missed out on a very quiet first class than on having a seat at all (that was reserved).

It’s harder if it’s just a normal busy train, as you do book first class for peace and quiet, but surely having people sitting safely is a priority.

In crazy packed trains I've gone and sat in first class. Never been asked to move by ticket inspectors on showing my non first class ticket.

YABU

I always thought you are paying to travel not guarantee a seat unless you are able to reserve one. If they do open up first class then the difference needs to be paid back to those who paid the full first class fare. Or if people are needing a seat can pay more so they can

Psychologically some people feel much better about themselves if they feel they have access to something 'exclusive'.

So there is a group of people who would not want a better railway service across the board - having the opportunity to pay for something other people can't afford is their psychological priority.

It's irrational but not unknown! However it is a minority.

I usually travel first on long intercity services - declassification does happen sometimes and it is annoying as trying to get the compensation for the downgraded service out of the likes of EMR is a nightmare. However I am physically not able to stand for a long journey so its worth it.

In other circumstances it is at the discretion of the train manager to allow people to sit in first class. Some are kinder than others. I actually think that they need to make certain seats priority seats (some trains do but not all) and enforce the priority more firmly so a parent with a child in a sling gets to sit over a fit and healthy person scrolling their phone assiduously to avoid catching the eye of anyone who might want them to stand up.