AIBU to discuss A level success without private school spending?

It's experience my dear

For those parents who consider £250k a relatively small - or even medium-sized - amount of money, I suspect they are not at a school where they are questioning whether their school is delivering value of money. This is because it is simply a different league of fee-paying school and it's not affected by the financial challenges in the sector in the same way - in other words, it's largely business as usual 🙂

Exactly this! I know which I’d rather have treating me. Somebody who can get good grades whatever and not somebody who needs classes of 15 and the artificial environment of an education system only 6% can afford to ease their way to the same grades .

The assumption that comprehensive schools are noisy and chaotic is ridiculous.

I have an ND child who is at a fee-paying school, and I don't think it's an justification for the existence of fee-paying education - that's clearly wrong way of looking at it.

In choosing a fee-paying school, I knew I was using money to get something for my child that they might not be able to get elsewhere. I also knew that plenty of ND children wouldn't be able to get that extra support in the state sector and that is pretty hideously unfair.

I also completely take the point that, by using money to secure an advantage, that is one less middle class voice in the state sector directly invested in, and arguing for investment in state education - including for ND children who desperately need it.

However, when it came down to it, I did something as a parent that was instinctive rather than principled. I made a choice that I thought I was best for my own child (not society at large) because I was frightened of what would happen if I didn't. It's not any more complicated than that.

In the end, in my own set of family circumstances, the choice made an enormous difference in a way I couldn't have envisaged and I am so, so grateful for that. I recognise my privilege but if I had to make the choice 100 times over, I would make the same choice every time.

For the avoidance of doubt, I think every ND child should have access to what mine had (free of charge) and I am very sorry they don't. However, it's because of experiences like mine, that you find many passionate defenders of fee-paying schools in these types of Mumsnet thread - especially ones obsessing over teens around results day as if exam results are central to the private v state school debate - which for parents like me is to largely miss the point.

If a student can get good grades at a comprehensive school with noise and chaos going on then that is good grounding for medicine - making decisions in a and e

That is ridiculous scaremongering. 75% of medical students are state educated. 75 of As at Alevel come from the state sector and research shows state educated pupils do better at uni. State schools are more than capable of educating students for top roles- and are doing so!

Quite a few of those schools going out of business were struggling with numbers before the introduction of VAT. Quite a few state schools have closed or reduced the numbers of forms per year.
Possibly something to do with the falling birthrate. When my DC's were small most of their friends came from families of 4 or even 5 - their children are friends with families of 1, 2 or 3 with slightly older parents.

Fair enough, though I was largely replying to the OPs increasingly incoherent rant and self-quoting. Hope your daughter does well, we actually (if you go by postcodes!) Live in a fairly deprived area. We got a cheaper house to be able to afford school fees, but to me it's worth it (and the house is nice, despite the area)

I’m retired now but I worked in quite a few different state and private. I can’t honestly say that private is always better. It really does depend on the school and each individual child. I’ve seen some really horrendous bullying going on in private schools (and not just from the kids). I’ve also seen some absolutely brilliant pastoral care and many amazing educational achievements happening in state schools.

Being a bit blunt, the main thing you pay for in independent schools is to not have to mix with poor children or disruptive kids with SEN.

Not always. There are the widening participation grades for those from listed schools and postcodes with some including fee remissions or reduced price accommodation. My DD got this from a university renowned for it's 3A grade policy.

A school isn’t diverse when it is full
of kids from families who value education and can afford an education that costs more than many people earn.

Why isn't it good now?

I believe that children from all sorts of backgrounds can flourish academically no matter which school they are from, and grades are just one indicator of success. A good education is not only about grades. Those who can truly afford private school also do not think about whether it's 'value for money', it's just the done thing.

Those ND SEND children will have to do what the vast majority of ND SEND children have to do-use the state sector. My ND, bullied child who missed a lot of schooling has just got into a Russel group uni via an Access course taken in a college in quite a challenging area with high deprivation.I am sick of the use of SEND and ND to justify the inequalities that the private sector causes.

Not at all. But in my decades long teaching career, in both sectors and with ND teens who did have to switch to private to be able to access secondary education successfully and safely, its simply not true to suggest that state is a perfectly viable option for everyone. It simply isn't. There are a million variables but a combination of any 3-4 issues such as outlined CAN not will, make thriving in SOME State schools very difficult. I would also say there is far more difference between top and bottom state schools than top State and average private. Attendance at top states generally rely on parental income and ability to live in the catchment. Its absolutely no different to choosing fees.
Its also a myth that State schools are more diverse. In my area, the state schools are overwhelmingly white w/c and m/c. Where there are different demograohics in one school, like goes with like and kids find their mares amongst similar 'types'. The privates are a huge mix of ethnicities, cultures, languages and income with friendships formed across those boundaries.

Whatever a Labour govt might think, the fact remain that we are in a global economy. The quality of our design engineers is measured against the quality of Chinese or American or Russian design engineers. Anything that reduces that quality impacts our economic success.

So the problem is that once they get to university there will be state educated students there with the same grades so OPs DC has experienced no benefit? I fail to see how you can assume no benefit in this scenario.

What on earth are you talking about? Identical grades? Um, yes. Everyone gets graded on the same system. Everyone doing my course at my uni would all have had AAA for example as the was the entry requirement.

Whilst I don’t have an issue with private education, I think this is a poor argument to justify it - especially to a Labour government.

My DC went to state school. Got better A level results than their cousins who were privately educated. Went to similar universities and studied similar subjects. My DC graduated with higher degree classifications than their cousins. My DC both then studied postgraduate degrees, which their cousins didn't. Their cousins still find it easier to get into a good graduate career because they have networks that my DC don't.

The other thing to consider OP, is that the U.K. needs well educated individuals to fill roles as doctors, scientists engineers, teachers, entrepreneurs, strategists and diplomats, in order for the U.K. to flourish.

By driving some of the best schools in the country out of business and adding additional load to already overstretched state schools, the Labour govt has reduced our ability to educate those individuals to the necessary level.

Dumbing down helps no-one and leaves U.K. plc weaker as a commercial entity.