To think Dsis is overeacting after SS hit niece?

Reading this thread makes it clear why VAWG is such a huge and ever increasing problem the world over. Stop excusing male violence. You are part of the problem OP.

But your response was to a discussion about a husband and wife acting that way. We are in agreement that physical violence is wrong. It is the emotional abuse we cannot agree on.

Mind blowing isn't it. Explains a lot though.

Nope, most kids wouldn’t lash out at being wound up.

my nephew is 15, sometimes my girls are annoying to him, sometimes he gets pissed off with them.

he’s never once hit them.

There is no justification for violence, and the she made me do it is the abusers handbook.

what If he hits his girlfriend when he gets one, if she winds him up. What about you op, what about if he feels you’re being annoying and he smacks you one. Is that ok,

your sister is right. Yes her child was silly and on the wind up. But it doesn’t justify violence.

Have you got an aggressive DS?

You appear to think that sometimes it is OK for men to hit women. And that when they do so she was 'asking for it'.

I struggle to understand such ingrained misogyny.

Good on your and your partner for taking in and loving and supporting a boy with a troubled past. I think that's amazing. You're both clearly very good people. Obviously he shouldn't have hit her and he knows this. That's the trouble with difficultycontrolling anger and it's great he is getting more support with that. The child sounds extremely badly behaved and goading him. I wouldn't pay your sister any attention and just keep them separate for a while/indefinitely if that's what she wants

If we're thinking about this in a domestic violence context if I knew a woman who liked to provoke and goad her husband into hitting her because she enjoyed the drama or the attention it got her then I would be very condemning of the husband for the violence. I'd only feel sorry for her in that I'd feel sorry for her that she was so messed up that she was seeking drama and attention that way. I'd be keeping her at arms length because I'd worry what she'd try on me.

As PP have said, the 15 year old is getting help and being taught strategies for this behaviour. The 10 year old here isn't.

Same and same again with which I would prefer but we’re adults aren’t we? Were talking about a 10YO girl. It’s not the same. You’re deliberately trying to move this into an argument between you and I and I’m honestly not interested in it thanks. I gave my opinion and you gave yours but to even comment that you would rather have….. blah blah blah is bullshit. This is a 10YO girl and hitting someone is a criminal offence.

the closest I have to that would be my 12 year old daughter hitting the 8 year old son of my friend, who we holiday with.
if he was on the wind up and she hit him, ALL of my focus would be on her hitting him, I certainly wouldn’t be demanding apologies from him.

HTH

Your niece is a brat. She was tormenting him and not understanding people’s boundaries and that no means no.

I think most kids would’ve lashed out at her tbh.

your SS is only human, there’s only so much someone can take before enough is enough.

it does sound like he has anger issues as he reacted badly to an arcade machine but he did remove himself from the situation with your niece. She followed him and gave him no escape when he was removing himself from the situation so I’m not surprised he lashed out, as I said further up most kids would’ve done the same.

i would just explain to my sister that he’s apologised, she’s not hurt, she’s learnt nothing and that’s the end of it.

i would refuse to engage in this anymore

What about when the sexes are reversed?

Nope it’s arsehole behaviour as I said.

That's a stretch and not what I meant, but whatever.

There is no excuse, ever, for male on female violence.

It's like the judges who let men off for rape because she was 'asking for it' for being drunk and wearing revealing clothing.

she needs to be told off for that.

She should have been told off at the time, by OP, as soon as she ignored her requests to stop pestering. It takes two people to escalate a confrontation which is what happened here, it didn't magically leap to her spilling water and him hitting her.. it was an escalation that should not have been allowed to happen in the first place.

Why wow?

Wow!

I have experienced it being hit. I've also experienced emotional abuse. The emotional was much worse and many victims say the same.
I didn't say hitting isn't a crime, I said the opposite to that.
Odd that you say people can't think critically and then when I point out you're not thinking critically because you can't see beyond the law you reference the law and tell me I'm overthinking it.

She wasn't just being annoying

So why did you not intervene on your SS's behalf? Feeding a baby is not really an excuse to let all that play out, her pestering him, him shouting at her, her following him, her name calling, him hitting her .. you were the responsible adult and you did absolutely nothing.

It's almost like you did nothing because you knew SS would meter out his own justice and you would then feel justified in blaming her for the outcome.

Probably not. Hence why the risk to himself is probably also increased. But you can’t really mitigate for that.

What is the actual point in spending years teaching kids to say ‘no I don’t like that’ if we aren’t also teaching them that no or stop does actually mean stop. Not stop if you are a boy Carry on if you are a girl or younger than the person you are winding up beyond the point where everyone is finding it a game.

I suspect if the sexes were reversed here fewer people would think all the blame lies with the one child.

He is obviously not a small child but he isnt "nearly an adult".

An adult needed to step in and end the situation and certainly keep the 10yo away from the 15yo as her provocation sounds extreme (and she is responsible for destroying his property and taunting him which suggests she is herself either lacking in skills or being taught very wrong at home).

Both are children; both are old enough to have criminal responsibility in the UK FWIW.

As there can't be adequate supervision, this holiday is a terrible idea that needs to end prematurely.

The girl's mothers comments are inexcusable and she is not doing her daughter any favours in the long run if she doesn't address her behaviour.

Your stepson needs intensive support and this holiday is not in his interests.

I am sorry there are so many pressures and difficulties but you can't suit everyone here or do the right thing -- I would focus on the children you can help and stop fostering the broader unsafe family relationships.

Reasons and excuses are not the same thing!
I absolutely agree that the 15 year old needs intervention and help in order to prevent him from ending up as someone who hits when frustrated. And OP and her dh are trying to ensure that happens. But I do think there has to be some understanding that this is a process and not write him off just yet. His background will have affected him and he's got to unlearn all of that. He's not just some 'normal' kid who doesn't give a shit - there are things going on in his brain that are affecting him all the time.

At the same time nieces behaviour needs to be addressed. It's possible to say that the son shouldn't have hit her and that she behaved really badly and her refusal to let him walk away has led to him lashing out. She does need to learn that she cannot go through life wrecking other peoples property, ignoring instructions and taunting people because those actions have consequences. The adults in her life are failing her if they only focus on what the son did wrong and ignore her own part in it because she came out worse.

If only the NHS knew of the countless experts on mumsnet that were available for diagnosing neurodiversities. They could clear the waiting lists for assessment in no time!