To think climate change will force a complete rethinking about immigration?

I think as we have seen with Italy and Spain there will be a hard closing of boarders.

And if climate change does become a global disaster then I think the UK will do the same.

I'm not sure how many people, on the ground or in government policy making, have connected the dots here.

The climate crisis disproportionately affects the global south, where average temperatures are hotter, infrastructure less developed and available economic resources for mitigation lower. This is already making life in some areas, that have previously supported human communities for thousands of years, near impossible. There is talk of whole cities having to be abandoned.

The same crisis is primarily created by the industrialised countries of the global north, whose per capita emissions far outweigh those of less industrialised countries.

So if/when the large scale exodus of millions of people from no-longer-habitable environments becomes inevitable, two questions arise: Is it MORAL to disallow those people asylum in countries like the UK? And is it PRACTICABLE to do so - when the "small boats" issue becomes an increasingly large number of increasingly large boats, do we literally just view it as warfare and gun them down, or what?

These questions apply regardless of how you feel about immigration currently. If you are a hardline Brexiteer or otherwise strongly for controlling and reducing immigration, can you see a point in the future where it will no longer be tenable, either morally or practically, to maintain that position? And if you are liberal on immigration, can you see a point where having to be even more liberal will mean letting go altogether of many aspects of the UK's (and other countries') "identity"?

Interested in a range of perspectives - I think there's a whole bunch of sacred cows that may end up slaughtered by this. However if you believe that climate change either isn't happening or isn't due to human activity, please just jog on past and grow a brain cell or two. Life is too short.

Global temperatures are measured by satellite. You don’t need lots of weather stations… so I don’t believe you’re correct.

Europe is heating up faster than any other continent on the planet

I read this too and I'm not convinced. I think that Europe is the continent most likely to efficiently track data and to publish it promptly.

Personally I think the global picture is much more bleak, as demonstrated by the fact that the only region heating up faster than Europe is the Arctic.

We will face the choice between being over run with people or fighting for our survival as a country. This will inevitably mean closing our border and gunning down anyone trying to breach it. Will a government have the stomach to do such a thing? We will wait and see.

If whole areas of North Africa become uninhabitable you don't think it will increase population flows to southern Europe?

Greece and Turkey have hard borders which have reduced irregular migration to almost zero. Spain and Italy are going the same way. Denmark and Sweden have done the same.

You don't need to shoot people to impose hard borders - you just don't let them in, and the ones who do get in you immediately return to their starting point, country of origin, or a 3rd country.

The USSR shot people who were trying to leave, not get in.

I'm not sure how many people, on the ground or in government policy making, have connected the dots here.

The climate crisis disproportionately affects the global south, where average temperatures are hotter, infrastructure less developed and available economic resources for mitigation lower. This is already making life in some areas, that have previously supported human communities for thousands of years, near impossible. There is talk of whole cities having to be abandoned.

The same crisis is primarily created by the industrialised countries of the global north, whose per capita emissions far outweigh those of less industrialised countries.

So if/when the large scale exodus of millions of people from no-longer-habitable environments becomes inevitable, two questions arise: Is it MORAL to disallow those people asylum in countries like the UK? And is it PRACTICABLE to do so - when the "small boats" issue becomes an increasingly large number of increasingly large boats, do we literally just view it as warfare and gun them down, or what?

These questions apply regardless of how you feel about immigration currently. If you are a hardline Brexiteer or otherwise strongly for controlling and reducing immigration, can you see a point in the future where it will no longer be tenable, either morally or practically, to maintain that position? And if you are liberal on immigration, can you see a point where having to be even more liberal will mean letting go altogether of many aspects of the UK's (and other countries') "identity"?

Interested in a range of perspectives - I think there's a whole bunch of sacred cows that may end up slaughtered by this. However if you believe that climate change either isn't happening or isn't due to human activity, please just jog on past and grow a brain cell or two. Life is too short.

TBH I think we are all stuffed and there won't be enough resources to share whoever lives where.

I'm not sure how many people, on the ground or in government policy making, have connected the dots here.

The climate crisis disproportionately affects the global south, where average temperatures are hotter, infrastructure less developed and available economic resources for mitigation lower. This is already making life in some areas, that have previously supported human communities for thousands of years, near impossible. There is talk of whole cities having to be abandoned.

The same crisis is primarily created by the industrialised countries of the global north, whose per capita emissions far outweigh those of less industrialised countries.

So if/when the large scale exodus of millions of people from no-longer-habitable environments becomes inevitable, two questions arise: Is it MORAL to disallow those people asylum in countries like the UK? And is it PRACTICABLE to do so - when the "small boats" issue becomes an increasingly large number of increasingly large boats, do we literally just view it as warfare and gun them down, or what?

These questions apply regardless of how you feel about immigration currently. If you are a hardline Brexiteer or otherwise strongly for controlling and reducing immigration, can you see a point in the future where it will no longer be tenable, either morally or practically, to maintain that position? And if you are liberal on immigration, can you see a point where having to be even more liberal will mean letting go altogether of many aspects of the UK's (and other countries') "identity"?

Interested in a range of perspectives - I think there's a whole bunch of sacred cows that may end up slaughtered by this. However if you believe that climate change either isn't happening or isn't due to human activity, please just jog on past and grow a brain cell or two. Life is too short.

Europe is heating up faster than any other continent on the planet, and we are not acclimatised or set up to deal with it. Emptying millions of Africans into Europe is not the answer, neither is going backwards to live like cavemen. The problem is poverty. They can cope with extreme temperatures in the Middle East because they are wealthy. I hope we can make great progress in nuclear technology and reach a point where countries globally are able to have affordable modular nuclear power plants and abundant energy.

There are multiple catastrophes happening simultaneously. We are technologically on the precipice of mass unemployment whilst in a timeframe of active climate change and resource scarcity. The people at the top are anticipating a lot of death of the people at the bottom and are hoping that will help with the resource burden. That’s why they are doing absolutely nothing about migration and not too much about the climate, as the hope is one will cancel out the other. I fully expect another man-made pandemic will be unleashed and that will wipe out the vulnerable as they are too expensive to care for and will help with the Eugenics problem.

Europe is heating up faster than any other continent on the planet

I read this too and I'm not convinced. I think that Europe is the continent most likely to efficiently track data and to publish it promptly.

Personally I think the global picture is much more bleak, as demonstrated by the fact that the only region heating up faster than Europe is the Arctic.

You imply that we are responsible for climate change and are therefore duty-bound to have our society and identity ruined.

China is the world's largest emitter of greenhouse gases. While we are consumed by masochism and hand-wringing and self-loathing, they are building coal-fired power plants. In fact, India alone emits more than the whole of Europe. Even Indonesia emits more than the UK.

Neither are we responsible for overpopulation. Africa has the highest birth rate in the world, and the African population is going to double. That's not my fault. That's their responsibility. I would have far more sympathy with Africans if they had fewer children. In parts of Africa, women still have five or six kids on average!

As for my identity, that is long gone anyway. Immigration has destroyed any sense of living in a nation with a shared culture and shared history. I have had a new, multicultural identity IMPOSED on me by smug, bullying liberal fascists.