To think climate change will force a complete rethinking about immigration?

@SmallTreeDeepRoots thank you for answering my question.

@38thparallel One of the FSU stans. Post-soviet collapse, bit of civil war and power supplies stopped. Everything got a bit crazy for a few years. And not a third world country, but educated population, universities/healthcare system. Social structures galore. But a country populated by a number of different ethnic groups with their own languages as well as common trading languages, hence more chaotic than Russia or baltics in post-communist era.

My teenage cousin was shot dead for 4 AA batteries

@SmallTreeDeepRoots In which country did this happen?

They’ve all ignored climate change bar the box ticking exercises occasionally.
They need to deal with current immigration right now, future immigration can wait.
As long as countries are bombing each other, slaughtering humans, killing communities, 10,000’s are being slaughtered in Sudan, Nigeria and the Congo, bodies piled in rivers, Russia, Ukraine, America, Iran, Israel, Lebanon all throwing explosives.
1000’s of bodies decomposing in Gaza
Deal with the current immigration crisis there is no hope of repairing climate damage while lunatics are running the world.

Illegal migrants can bring with them environmental issues.
In just 2 weeks, illegal immigrants turned Cueta into an environmental concern. Shacks made of cloth and cardboard are on the beach. Garbage and human excrement everywhere. The smell is awful, birds have disappeared from the beach. There is a health crisis, scabies, TB, diarrhoea. Over 10 women already raped, including a 10-year-old girl. Men everywhere, Spanish women not going to the area of beach affected.

None of this helps the climate.

The global South covers a great many counties. Some are well off, some have large numbers of very well off leaders. A great many have vast resources of minerals, opportunities for wealth creation and a highly educated workforce. Do they have the initiative to come up with solutions themselves? I'm sure they could.
Are leaders of some countries corrupt, inept and happy to drain money from other countries - oh yes.
Should we treat them as naive, poor innocents ? No, as equals.

@38thparallel Cuba is interesting because they have had energy crunches before (very interesting 2005(?) documentary about the post-soviet energy crunches available online) but this time they are getting more angry. Especially as the elite are seen to have access to more reliable power while the hospitals are collapsing with literally no lights and water.

As for billionaires flying away, there really is no away. Wherever they go, they will be vulnerable. No bunker is enough, particularly when they will no doubt be having staff to do the grunt work. Private island? Who will be growing food, keeping the lights on, delivering supplies to the island? Desperate people will see they have the water/supplies they are lacking. The most pacifist of people will grab a pitchfork when they (or their kids) are starving while others in reach are living like hogs. If you don’t realise that then you have had a fortunate life cushioned from oppression and extreme want. My teenage cousin was shot dead for 4 AA batteries. My neighbour was stabbed trying to stop someone siphoning petrol out of his car. When it all goes to shit, it all goes to shit. What I hope for is a smooth transition, a staircase catabolic collapse. A series of events that reduce our standard of living a little, followed by a period of recovery that never quite recovers to the previous level. Then repeat. In fact, this is the process we are currently in. If it continues we will have a manageable decline. But climate change is neither steady nor controlled.

@SmallTreeDeepRoots thank you for answering my question.
There may be a revolution in UK but the very rich will flee in their private jets at the hint of trouble.
How long will Cuba hold it together This is interesting. They’ve managed to hold out against the USA for decades - people have said for years, ‘oh you must go to Cuba before the regime collapses’ and yet maybe the Cuban people will finally have had enough of their corrupt leaders and overthrow them.

@38thparallel I’m not threatening anyone. But the world is full of actual historical incidents when those in power or those hoarding extreme wealth were toppled by angry people who felt hard done by. Which is why some billionaires make efforts to appear philanthropic and benevolent. If people are struggling to live through a resource crisis or extreme weather event, many will either vent their rage towards those who have hoarded wealth to make their lives less fragile or will storm the barricades to access food, clean water etc. Desperate people will act desperately- this is logical. My birth country collapsed in a civil war between haves and have nots. Sri Lanka had a similar situation over fuel last year. How long will Cuba hold it together? Are we not already seeing more and more division in the UK? What is the rise of reform/restore and worse if not an exploitation of the fact that many people are struggling and are ready to be told “it’s not your fault, we can fix this”.

But the extremely rich would do well to remember that they are massively outnumbered and largely remain enormously wealthy by consent.

@SmallTreeDeepRoots that sounds vaguely threatening. What will happen to the rich if those who outnumber them no longer consent?

Hopefully we'll do somrthing similar internally. Don't want my lovely little area of Scotland being overrun by people from the South trying to escape drought, water shortages and heat tbh. Maybe we should start rebuilding Hadrian's Wall to keep them out 🤔

Hopefully sooner than that.

For us maybe right now? But isnt that your point, just as the impact of climate change is on particular regions, so is the impact of late stage capitalism. In that my life is quite nice, someone else is working in pretty awful conditions elsewhere. My pensions probably invested in it? Who knows. What will ai and robots do to all this?

Maybe the poor impacted by climate change will be the ones pushing for a form of communism in some sort of uprising.

I grew up under communism. It had its advantages, but plenty of disadvantages too. And corruption was all around. But the extremely rich would do well to remember that they are massively outnumbered and largely remain enormously wealthy by consent.

The answer doesn't lie in politics. All sides of the political spectrum are equally useless and incapable of solving the problems. All they will have left is authoritarianism, which is where we're heading.

Well yes this consequence is coming
The irony of reform and other right wing parties ignoring climate change and therefore driving future immigration isn't lost...

Has communism worked well anywhere? It’s not like it hasn’t been tried.
When the Berlin Wall was still standing, which side did people try to escape from?
My own family came from a communist country, where corruption was rampant and the standard of living pretty low.
But that’s okay, isn’t it, as long as it’s equally rubbish for everyone (apart from those close to the ruling party).

The problem with communism is so few in power thrive but worse than that use subjugation and violence to enforce outcomes for everyone else.

The idea that people would have to accept millions or else wouldn’t work, unless they really ramped up authoritarian and dictatorial measures.

Agree. Communism wouldn’t be needing persuasive arguments in 2050 had it worked anywhere in the past.

Yes I’m not sure that’s the answer. It’s usually state control with awful outcomes for the masses.

Not enough of a balance on the babies been born. European women have been convinced for years to reduce births, save the planet, give your little family more, etc etc, or build your career, travel, believing it was positive. but now, apparently we need to import children to balance the country.

I don’t believe that poster is correct either.
The children are born year after year, A lot of African women do work, the Christian African women. The Muslim women do not.
We have neighbours from Syria. The mother is apparently a hospital consultant, they moved in 9 years, with two sons, now they’ve 7 children, he the father is a part time taxi driver, the mother is a SAHM.
We have a few Muslim families who have a lot of children but only one allows their children play with the other children. In the summer holidays the children play hide and seek, probably 30 children, I love to see the diversity, immigration in the past was beneficial, now it’s off the scale,
We have children from Indian, African, Asian and the Middle Easty countries. it’s scary for the families who are here years as they now face abuse because of the government’s policies on mass immigration.
That’s not pulling up the ladder, enough is enough.

God help us then, because communism killed more people than ever before. Humans are disposable units to communists.

it’s going to be horrendous I think