To be disappointed that my ds has decided not to go to uni.

As everyone has said Uni doesn't necessarily advance life chances.

I wanted to caution you about taking this attitude to his GF, I've known so many Mum's cause a rift by blaming what their sons do on their GFs which is just nonsense...he is an adult try and understand his decisions

I don't think that anybody is saying otherwise.

The big problem is that while there have always been jobs like this, the number of such jobs have increased at a much smaller rate (if at all) than the number of graduates that are chasing those jobs.

So, 30 or 40 years ago there was a very definite 'graduate premium' that could be measured.

Today, for those graduates who get one of these jobs, there is still very much a 'graduate premium'. The only problem is what happens to all the other graduates that don't get one of these jobs?

Absolutely agree. Getting out and working offers lots of life experience. They get to see what it's like when things go well and when things don't go so well at work. They learn a lot of skills that uni won't be teaching them. DS aged 19 has full time hours right now (10 hr shifts) working in a bakery whilst he waits on college term to begin. He's not thrilled about it but knows the money's helping pay for his car insurance and saving up to move out.

No guarantee of work after uni as many have pointed out. Let young people find their own path and if they f*ck it up they can learn from the experience the hard way. There's too much wrapping young people up in cotton wool. Don't clip their wings.

Uni isn't right for everyone.
@youalright sounds like your DD is getting on fine and found the right path for her. She has become successful and didn't need to go to uni to achieve this.

"Lots are Chevening scholars or are funded by their governments."

According to their own website:

"Chevening Scholarships enable outstanding emerging leaders from all over the world to pursue one-year master’s degrees in the UK."

That's not your typical undergraduate student doing a three year BA degree in Business Studies though, is it?

"...or are funded by their governments"

Are you perhaps talking about something like the Indian 'National Overseas Scholarship' programme that supports students from certain castes to get a Masters or PhD overseas?

Again, this is very different from an ordinary undergraduate course.

"A lot self fund masters courses after 20 year careers in the UN or business orgs."

Are you perhaps talking about an MBA or a similar type of course?

Once again, as I said, that is a very different cohort indeed than those doing a three year undergraduate degree and it is not at all comparable.

.

The correct comparator to an 18 year old British person thinking about attending a British university to do a first degree would be an overseas student also wanting to attend a British university to do a first degree.

The university I attended currently has 46% UK undergraduates, 8% from the EU and 46% international undergraduates (according to UCAS).

More than half of all those international students come from China (source HESA).

The next two largest countries are Hong Kong and the USA.

Also, despite international students making up only 46% of undergraduates they account for almost 80% of tuition fee income.

Chinese (as well as Hong Kong, American etc) undergraduates studying in the UK are not (generally speaking) being paid for by their governments. The vast majority are being funded by their families.

The bottom line is whatever anyone's adult child decides to do whether thats uni, full time work, travel, apprenticeship. It's their life not yours aslong as my kids are happy and healthy thats all that matters. Their life choices as adults are none of my business aslong as they are doing something.

But if you go to those countries, education is highly valued even amongst the people who stay in their country of origin. You can see it amongst African and Asian kids who succeed in the same system poor White kids fail in. They are being let down by the British cultural disdain for education and educators. Not only by their parents but the chattering classes who want to gatekeep further and higher education to the elites and in turn fetishise yesteryear of the noble poor.. Our system is terrible but it lets down all our children because it does not provide opportunities for those who do not want to or cannot go into higher education but people habitually dismiss and disparage those who do.

You have made assumptions in your reply.

Both my husband and I went to university, we both also have masters degrees so the ‘it never did us any harm comment’ utter shite.

And we do not tell them to be ‘plumbers’ as you can see from my comment. What we say is ‘University is amazing but the idea that a degree will open doors other pathways won’t isn’t entirely true’

My sons are well aware they can do any career they see fit, but getting tens of thousands of pounds in debt to enter a career you can do via an apprenticeship is poor planning and as a parent it would be completely negligent if I didn’t make them aware of that. And also, on that thread, getting tens of thousands of pounds in debt so that you can ‘see what university is like’ is pure stupidity.

We tell our children - if you want to do something that requires a degree, University is where you need to go. If you can enter your chosen career via an apprenticeship then it makes more sense to do that.

My student loan was £34,000. I have paid back £29,000. I still owe them £26,000. I would never ever actively encourage my children to get themselves into that sort of debt needlessly.

Love the people who are just throwing out a degree apprenticeship as an option to someone who has no real direction or clue what they want to do.

Apprenticeships are hugely competitive you will be up against people with the highest grades who have a range of examples of related work experience/shadowing/volunteering and may have their own portfolio of related work. After submitting an impressive CV and a tailored cover letter you often have personality tests, a group interview and then a 121 interview where you will need to impress with your interest and dedication to the role, your ability to be a team player and be able to answer questions confidently and competently and make your experience relevant.

It's not something you just do on the fly or on a whim and then just get. DS went through the process, applying to 25 different companies and getting to all sorts of different stages of the process. He was predicted all A stars, had a github full of his own work, apps he had made, relevant volunteering and work shadowing and often didn't get past the first stage.

I can't imagine many people just walk into plumbing or electrician apprenticeships easily either - in fact google tells me that the number of applicants far out weighs the number of places (for those already with a level 2 qualification) and that plumbing apprenticeships are extremely difficult to get. I'd imagine who you know is relevant too. Our plumber has an apprentice - it's his son.

For every person who doesn't go to uni but still goes on to earn a huge amount I wonder how many hundreds there are who end up on minimum wage forever, or on benefits. Going to uni at 30 is not going to be the same experience as going at 18/19 either. There were a few older people on my degree and they always lived away and were never really part of things.

Personally I'd push him to do the degree. If he had other things he was interested and wanted to pursue then fine, but it doesn't seem like he does. The girlfriend sounds controlling so I'd want him away from her as well.

Until recently, as part of my role, I recruited for a small business - mainly for junior roles in event management, sales and marketing. I never specified the need for a degree because there wasn't one, but when graduates did apply, it didn't matter at all what their degree was. If I liked their CV and covering letter, a History graduate was as likely to get an interview as someone with a degree in Event Management. There's a lot to be said for doing a degree in a subject you love and being able to speak passionately about your choice (and I speak as someone who was heavily persuaded, many years ago, to do a "useful" degree. I hated it and have never used it).

It is very sad to see that this is how people think. If people don’t believe that gaining knowledge and educating yourself count as valuable experience, then we are in serious trouble as a society.

Young people have no problem spending money on the latest iPhones, Starbucks, and vapes, but somehow a £100 deduction a month towards their education and future is seen as unacceptable. The priorities are completely backwards.

There’s been some pretty mean comments on here about people who don’t go to university. Some people will choose to work, get a house, remain in the town they grew up in. I think it’s unfair to suggest it’s boring or not ambitious. They might have strong ties to their community, they might spend time gaining new experiences and travelling. My DH has always pretty much lived in the area we grew up in, whereas I’ve moved around a lot. He likes it here. He didn’t go to university, did professional qualifications and is now CEO of a business in our local city. He’s climbed the ranks and we’ve travelled.

The university route isn’t for everyone. You can still educate yourself, surely that’s what industry qualifications are? It’s not all or nothing. For some people it’s the right road, for others they might want to learn via working. Some might go to university later on.

I went to university 20 years ago and the landscape has changed a lot regarding employment when you finish. Not to mention for a lot of young people, there’s a lot of debt attached to them.

OP, maybe your son is tired of academic learning, maybe he wants to work for a while. Whilst the offer of his grandparents paying the tuition fees is very kind, your ds would still have debt from accommodation and living costs. My ds is 17 and he’s getting bored of college. He works hard but doesn’t particularly want to go to university because he’s not particularly passionate about any subject. He also has grandparents that would pay his tuition. I worry he’ll feel he’s missed out on the experience but ultimately it’s his life. I won’t be the one in lectures or completing assignments. He’s got a part time job locally and once he finishes college, he’ll continue that and look for full time work. Not every young person has a specific plan even those who go to university. They may go because they like a subject.

I value education but can appreciate that education comes in many forms. It isn’t always found just in a lecture hall.

I'd be gutted too, OP. I was never supported/actively sabotaged when trying to gain my education when I young and it has impacted my life and confidence since.

ETA I'm going back to school in Sept at 40 as my youngest DC starts reception. It's never too late!

I think its because graduates dont get such a premium now and not all graduates get graduate work, so some people (not all) are doing the exact job they would have done without the degree but are paying 9% tax over 25k or others are earning the same they would have earned but just a different field

They therefore have less money in thier pocket than they would have done. Which is fine if you valued your experience and felt it was worth paying £100 a month for the rest of your working life for it, but in other ways a couple of hundred a month when you have a mortgage and nursery fees might sting when your colleage doesnt have that payment.

Its great if you get a job you couldnt have done in a field you love as you might feel that was worth paying to enter, or if you earn way more than you would have, but that's not everyone's experience.

I hear this all the time. Imagine being bright and wanting to study further after school, be with people your own age and see what uni is like and then your parents telling you there is nothing wrong with living at home and doing an apprenticeship in your local town never did them any harm. I feel really sorry for some kids that life has become so limiting.

It is his life and his choice, and he can always go in the future if he wants to.

He does need to have a plan though.

I told DD that the one option she does not have, is to do nothing. So if she doesn't go to Uni (her current choice), she needs to look for full time work or an apprenticeship in something.

But let's not forget the flip side - there are also lots of graduates earning well over six figure salaries by their mid twenties who walked into a high paying job straight after finishing their degree.

Not in my example, thankfully, but yes, I can see why lots of people are put off by the debt, especially when the degree doesn’t necessarily guarantee a job at the end of it.

There is no point in him going to uni if he has reservations about it. He would incur massive debt when his heart was not in it.

It might be worth paying to get some good careers advice to get a proper picture of what his options might be.

All 3 of my DDs have degrees - none of them use the subject in their careers.

Not unreasonable to be disappointed, but in his life , it’s his mistake to make . Many people go on to do really well without Uni.. the richest guys I know never went to university, and two left school at 16 with a couple of O levels, one left after A levels. I don’t know about the others. But then, you didn’t need a piece of paper for everything. My eldest son is happy, makes a good living, left school at 16 to my disappointment, but can work anywhere, is in demand in his industry . Gets his bits of paper as he goes along , renewing them as necessary.
So there’s always hope.

I also know a girl who went to work, changing her mind about uni. Now as her pals are leaving uni and struggling to find work, she’s jet setting around the world in a different country every couple of months. University is not the be all and end all.

If it makes you feel any better OP my nephew is working in a pub too. He has recently graduated from Imperial with a first class degree. The other difference is he has a huge debt to pay off.

Again, not true. Students from
places like India often dont come from wealthy backgrounds at all. Lots are Chevening scholars or are funded by their governments. And I don’t nescessarily agree with the international student cash cow situation either. A lot self fund masters courses after 20 year careers in the UN or business orgs. It’s an enormous mix.

But the majority aren’t anything like you say at all. Most want to improve themselves and see education as a way to do that.

We also get plenty of European students on study abroad programmes, cultural exchanges and now probably Erasmus programmes.

Please don’t patronise me - your post speaks more about your own assumptions of International students.

It will be a difficult conversation, but he needs to make sure she doesn't get pregnant.

Tuition fees paid are one thing, he was very lucky to have that offer and very generous of your family. How was he going to fund accommodation, food and other living expenses? A part time job helps, but depending on location he could still have ended up with a lot of debt.

What was his plan post uni? Did he know what industry/career he wanted? There are many ways he could still be successful career wise if that's what he wants. Business Management isn't a professional degree that is required in order to enter a specific career, like medicine or law.

He could also look at part time/distance courses like Open University whilst working. If he still has the offer of fees paid, and he can work full time alongside whilst living where he wants to.

He has just made a big life choice, so maybe give him a day or two, then just help him as he needs for his new plan/direction. He is still young, obviously intelligent to get the offer, so has lots of time and opportunities

I really don’t understand the issue with student loans in the UK. You take one out and pay it back when you receive a salary above a certain amount. Having a few hundred pounds deducted monthly isn’t a bad thing, especially if you would not have got that job without the degree.

Where I am from, my country doesn’t care if you have a job or not: you have to pay it back straight away.

I think UK students have it very good compared with other countries, yet people are obsessed with the “idea of paying back the money” and see it as something negative.

And in terms of the “daddy is paying” argument for living costs — students still can and should work alongside their studies. They can take on a part-time job, such as bartending. I don’t understand why people assume that working and studying at the same time is impossible.

This. I am actually encouraging my children NOT to go to university unless they want a career which can only be accessed via a degree. But if they want to be say an accountant, they can now do this as an apprenticeship, same with being a solicitor etc.