To be disappointed that my ds has decided not to go to uni.

Our friend did a maths degree, then an English degree. He still works in a different field to both those degrees.

University does not suit everyone. My son went, got a Maths degree but still ended up doing something entirely different that did not need a maths degree.

@CAG2003 You are making the huge assumption he’s going to get work that informs him of anything at all. I do agree trades should be considered, but many dc don’t stick this work and there is a ceiling on earnings. Getting jobs as a 18 year old with limited skills is very very hard. Just doing very low level work is not great for informing a young person about a degree.

We also don’t know what university he was going to. This would make a huge difference. Has he given up Bath or Northampton?

If you read my message again you will see you have missed my point entirely.
In no way did I imply a degree from a top university isn’t worth having, nor did I imply it is easier for 18 year olds to get a job (believe me, I know!). What I did imply was that a student attending a university, regardless of prestige, with no desire to be there is a waste of time and money. University isn’t easy, it’s not something you can cost through and if you don’t have the desire or interest to do it you won’t do well, or atleast no where near as well as you could do should you actually want to be there.
I’m not saying the original poster’s Son shouldn’t do a degree; I’m saying if he has the talent to attend a prestigious university he should do so when he is ready, when he actually wants to learn and make the most of the opportunity regardless of what subject that may end up being in. A couple of years gaining experience in any work place can help him decide what truly interests him, give him the motivation and desire to go and study and provide him with experiences any uni would perceive well- especially if he pushes to get involved in projects etc where he can. Presuming he got into a good university on the grounds of good A levels I see no reason why he wouldn’t be accepted again in the future.

Everybody is different but rightly or wrongly reading the original post reminded me of myself. Someone who, 4 years ago, WAS studying at an extremely well regarded Russel group uni. Someone who truly wasn’t ready to be there and was therefore unhappy and not living up to my potential.
I hope to apply to university again this year with a completely new outlook- a desire to be there, a course that is going to help me get where I know I want to go and I am really looking forward to it.
For some, uni is perfect straight after school, for others there is no harm in waiting until they know it’s time for them.

As a teacher of 20 plus years, I am.sick of Uni being the be all and end all at 18. 18! It's a business now. Career wise you would be far wiser to work for a bit, decide what you are actually really interested in, then see if you can get your degree subsidised by an employer.

Mature students get better offers, and you've got a bit of experience. My dd is taking a year out. She has no clue about her interests and wisely doesn't want to rack up debtvfor no reason. She's working her bum off to save and travel. We are not rich, we struggle every month to pay everything and we are both graduates. My son is earning 40k plus through trade, plumbing, at 20 years.

Plus, from the graduate entrance to our trust teacher training course, which dire, I would say graduates are desperate!

Our older son didn't want to go to university when he left school. He did various things before deciding to go after a couple of years. He was ready then, and now has a very successful career.
His brother, on the other hand, went straight to school after university and is also doing well in his chosen career.
Some need a bit of time and space to find their way.

I would be devastated too. He’s throwing away an excellent opportunity. Can you persuade him to try uni for a year ? And hopefully he’ll love it and get a new girlfriend

@ChasingAllThe Better than what? I said business because the OP’s DS is doing business. If he was going to Bath, he should go. He’s not doing Economics but if he was, Bath would be great.

I think an economics degree at bath is better

@CAG2003 So a degree from LSE, Oxbridge or a business degree from Bath isn’t worth a having? I think they are and are what they were. Where the difficulty lies is that the less good universities sell themselves to students but fail to say what their students are actually doing afterwards in any detail. It makes students think all degrees are equal whereas they patently are not. Just because grads cannot get jobs, don’t think it’s easier for 18 year old school leavers - it is not.

As a 23 yr old who had 2 years out, went to uni because I felt my parents wanted me to and dropped out after 3 months because I just didn’t want to be there don’t pressure him to go.
A degree these days isn’t what it used to be, other than specific degrees that lead to specific jobs.
All of my school friends went to uni and most graduated last year and so many of them struggled to find a job at all let alone a well paid graduate job.
They all had a fab time at uni socially and see it as some of their best years but I also see the last 5 years as some of my best years too. I’ve worked, made friends, had so many experiences even in situations where I didn’t think I would.
Now, for the first time since I was 18, i actually have found myself WANTING to do a degree. I’ve figured out what i like, learned about different jobs in the world and am looking at beginning study with drive because i actually want to do it. On top of that, I’ll be doing a degree I actually have an interest in and could see contributing to my life because I know what I find interesting and what’s worth spending money on. If he had a serious interest in his choice/ saw a reason to be interested I’d say he’d want to go.
Sure, I’m only 23 and have absolutely not got my life worked out, loads of money or any clue where life will actually take me but I do know I didn’t waste tens of thousands on a degree I didn’t actually really want to do or try for. Instead I have gained skills I can use in my career whatever I choose, earned some money, worked abroad and enjoyed life.
I wasn’t ready to go to uni when I went the first time- perhaps he’s like me and there is more to it than you may see.
I never told my parents that I couldn’t face the thought of the burn out I got at school again and that I just needed a break from school. They just saw it as “she’s having fun doing a job that’s not gonna use her brain and being difficult by not going”.
They see my point now and back me every step of the way. Uni isn’t just for 18 yr olds, it’s an investment and if I ever have children I will encourage them not to do a degree until they feel ready to try and genuinely interested to learn.

Sure. But there are many job roles that are still only open to graduates. Many of these are the higher paying ones. Your son has taken an equivalent apprenticeship route, which is great, but that's not the case for the OPs son at the moment. IMO yp need either to be doing a degree or on a recognised apprenticeship scheme with training by early 20s, or they just drift around labouring and working in bars on minimum wage. Which is fine when you're in your twenties. Not so much when you still only have these options in your forties and fifties.

Lifetime earning stats are relevant but we know better degrees from better unis pay grads better. Eg LSE degrees are worth more than Bucks uni degrees or Wolverhampton degrees. We know what subjects are more likely to produce a grad premium - medicine, economics, dentistry, physics, engineering - mostly stem but law is in the mix too as is business. Where you go matters a lot. What you study matters even more. Arts and English showing no grad premium at all. The IFS has studied all of this fairly recently.

No - because that is not relevant to this discussion - things have changed over the past 30 years.

@LaurmolonlabeWhat debt? Low earnings = no debt. It’s not a bank loan and vast numbers of grads don’t repay it and are not required to do so. Very low repayments are made even in decent jobs and maybe even next to none for years. Very high earners pay off the loan quickly - it’s the middle earners who don’t. Grads need to aim high and then it’s worth it but the competition for those jobs is fierce. Students need to understand that the student loan is not a debt that must be repaid.

@trueredstart Jobs are difficult to get these days. He’s got work experience but not necessarily the right skills and no qualifications for any job in business. So getting a suitable training job could be very difficult.

Universities are not all equal. If he’s got a place at a top one, going to uni could still give him a degree earnings premium. Going to a lowly one, maybe not. This is what needs weighing up. At the moment a basic job might not lead anywhere.

If I was 18 now there is no way I would even be considering university. I would have a plan though for how to start a career.

Many universities in my opinion are barely worth the name, even before you consider a lifetime of debt.

If I was the OP it would be the lack of a plan that would concern me.

He's got a good point. If he wants to study business management then get him working in a business. No debt and tonnes of experience to boot.

McDonald's is (at least, used to be) a great place to be fast-tracked to a managerial position.

Have you checked the lifetime earnings stats? They often tell a different story.

He could go to uni later on in life. I know someone who didn't go when younger, they were clever and eventually went about 24 years old and now have a good job.

It depends. My son is not going to university. He’s going to get apprenticeship as a business analyst instead of him getting debt in the same field

A lot? Not according to the average wage analysis that I have read relating to graduates. Or there are an equal number of grads earning almost nothing. I know a lot of graduates earning 30-40k a year (significantly less than my son) and none earning anything near 6 figures. Or anything like that. I would check your research.

If he's not enthused by the subject itself, and doesn't really have a plan, he'd likely be better off to work for a while.

You can gain a lot of skills working that are missing from many graduates and will give him a real edge. And he may find there are areas he is interested in he doesn't know about now.

I cant believe people are saying BM degrees are worthless. You're very wrong. It's a facilitating degree and looked on very favourably for those wanting to get into IT Sales, Recruitment, Marketing etc. Not everyone's cup of tea but outside super academic maths/economics/law grads where you need very high grades and impressive internships organised through parental contacts, these are the jobs where 25y olds can earn 3 figures, with commission. I work with these guys and the successful ones can be earning half a million a year by the time they are 30, student loan long paid off. Your son is being very short sighted I'm afraid (if money is a prime motivator which it seems to be from the loans fear).

I was very academic, but I still wouldn't go due to the amount of debt involvred unless it was a subject with a defined career path. Business mansagement is particularly nebulous- why not just go into a starter job in a company-post room or whatever and work your way from there?