To not stick to the hosepipe ban

We don't have a hose pipe ban here. But I'm trying to conserve water. Because I don't need to be told by The Man, or copy what other people are up to to understand that it's precious at the moment and not for wasting.
Tbh, I'm always careful with it anyway. Can't stand a running tap. I think it comes from 1976 and the way it was drilled in to me at a formative age.

We should move to proper market based pricing so you can just decide how much your hosepipe is worth to you. (And more importantly, incentivise and reward investment in water infrastructure which our regulators have continually blocked).

But given that we do have controlled prices, we need to ration somehow. In that case, prioritising businesses and common areas seems reasonable.

You can water your veg and important flowers with a watering can. It's good exercise doing a few trips back and forth.

Most important is leaving water out for the hedgehogs and birds.

The better answer is to invest in water infrastructure so that we don’t need to make that choice.

Unfortunately we have the worst combo of state control and private operators in this country, so it doesn’t happen. The water companies want to invest and the regulators block it, becuase they don’t want to see prices rise in the short term. The private operators don’t compete on price becuase they have a local monopoly, and investors are hesitant to fund long term investment becuase they can’t be assured that they will be allowed a return.

So: chronic underinvestment keeps supply low and prices high long term. High prices in the present because no local competition. Govt won’t fund becuase it competes with schools and hospitals, and the markets won’t fund becuase returns are controlled.

I'm ignoring it too. I have a few tomato plants in pots that are about 6 feet from my tap. I have a short length of hose connected to the tap to water them. I could use a watering can but I'm at a loss to understand what difference it would make. I'm not using a hose for anything else.

Unfortunately what something is worth to us isn't always conversent with what we can afford. Which when we're talking about luxuries is too bad. But market pricing has no place when it comes to the essentials. Jet washing your drive is obviously not an essential, but the same amount of water could be used by a family simply to meet hygiene needs.

Is food an essential?

Does market-based pricing have no place in supplying it?

I'd certainly be in favour of price capping on essential food items or a not for profit option for purchasing food. Because the numbers of people relying on food banks is escalating at frightening levels. However at least we have them. A community tap run by a charity would be rather more complex to provide.

Yes you are very unreasonable to keep watering your plants. Like or dislike water companies, but we are on our knees trying to keep up with demand. Hot weather makes the ground shift = broken pipes and burst rising mains. No amount of maintenance can help with that.

So please continue to water your plants whilst I and hundreds of others spend 7hrs a day on top of our day job handing out bottled water...

Yes. Because bees.

@5128gap The point about market prices is they create supply.

If people can’t afford water for a bath then we have a subsidy system (benefits) that can be used to address that.

If you try to solve it by rationing baths rather than building reservoirs then you will continue to have the problem.

Price-capping water is precisely the rationale used by water regulators to block private investment in reservoirs, as well as their judgment that it was not a priority. Central planners don’t have a great record on water
in the last few decades.

Also, rich shoppers buying lots of food at the supermarket probably doesn’t drive up prices for poor shoppers. It funds the infrastructure and brings down unit costs, into which the supermarket chains then offer basics-range at far below what it would cost if they had to charge a single mandated price.

Reminds me of the covid lock downs, seeing how we all conform.

I totally get that water is precious and we are going through a drout but at the end of the day is it purely the water boards mismanagement and inefficiency that is the problem. Millions and millions of houses being built hence more people need the water, no work being done to make the reservoirs bigger etc to handle the extra consumption yet they still all get the big fat cheques and bonuses. The worst thing was for the water boards to be privatised, as they are now run like a business and not a facility needed.

I will be using my hosepipe but I am careful with it. I only water my garden every other day now rather than every day, and I pinch the hose between plants so it doesn't just run out onto the grass/patio.

Maybe than just expect the public to conform, the water boards should pull their fingers out of their arse and sort out the problem. In the history of hosepipe bans, no one has ever been fined for breaking it. As they are a private company they have no power to issue on the spot fines and would have to take you through the courts, which would cost them more than the fine.

I think that’s a reasonable proposal. Market pricing for water, combined with some caps on cost for, say, a certain minimum amount or for the poorest people. Or subsidies funded by govt or charity.

Who do you mean by the water boards? The main reason infrastructure hasn’t been built is becuase regulators blocked the proposals that have come from private water companies.

eg Thames Water applied to build a big reservoir at Abington in 2011, the govt blocked it saying it wasn’t needed. Govt now says it’s urgent and must be fast-tracked.

We aren’t using the hose for the garden, the lawn is brown but it will recover. I’m using a watering can to water my herb bed but we don’t have flowers or plants. Dh uses the hose for washing out the hen house a couple of times a week, there is red mite in the house so it’s important to clean and dry and air it out regularly. He also uses the hose to
refill their water 3 times a week. It contains a finite amount of water so it would be the same using multiple watering cans or the hose.
The lawn looks a bit sad of course but hey ho.

Government not charity. The third sector is stretched so thinly already and needs funds to carry out its charitable work, never mind being expected to dish them out. There are some useful schemes where companies have trust funds, like Severn Trent, who will help financially. However as a principle, people's access to essentials shouldnt rely on discretionary provision. Resources are not consistent or reliable enough, relying as they do on voluntary support.

No I don’t think businesses should be a priority, but people should.
We already have a COL crisis, people are struggling financially, and now it’s being suggested that they should be out of work because the job they happen to have is at a splash park during a drought. The people who work at a car wash still need to pay their rent/mortgage etc. Whether I approve of the type of business isn’t really relevant. If the business has to close the people who happen to work there will need a furlough scheme.

I wish we were more careful with water as a society but it is difficult to make water waste an individual responsibility when it’s a systemic problem (and the companies in charge aren’t filling anyone with confidence!)

(For the record I’m also anti-data centres using fresh drinking water for cooling!)

Interesting that you think I would not agree with you, I am not a capitalist at all and consider myself quite “green”!
I have already said that I think maintaining public green spaces is essential and have mentioned biodiversity a couple of times.
I am a keen gardener and actually have an extensive vegetable garden as well as a flower garden. All the vegetables have been watered with a watering can from my water butt.
My flowers have for the most part survived with very little watering. I often use gray water or save the cold water that comes out the hot tap. In my previous comment I said I think we need to start adapting our gardens for extreme climates.

I know it doesn’t seem fair but all the situations you’ve mentioned are business’ however each of their employees when at their homes will be on the hosepipe ban too so I don’t feel it can really be compared. If they can’t use water then their business goes bust and those employees are out of work!
It’s up to each of us to do our bit, we have a fish pond so when DH needs to do any water changes rather than flushing the water down the drain he’s been draining it into a watering can to do the garden. Mum’s saving washing up water to water her garden.
I do think we should all be very angry about the water leaks though! Fat cats at the top
of water companies are getting their bonus’ while water is being wasted through leaks!!

Sorry I mis-read and thought you were proposing charity provision.

I think we should address poverty firstly: by trying to create growth and opportunity (including by public investment), secondly by subsidies for the poorest people, and almost never by stepping in to control prices. I can see some case as a hybrid measure for making the first X units of water very cheap.

Reason for not wanting general price controls is that it screws up supply and often makes things worse.

We don't have hosepipe ban where we live, but I keep a washing up bowl in the kitchen sink and any water from washing hands rinsing vegetables etc is caught and thrown on the garden. It is astonishing how much light grey water just goes down the drain.

I agree. Thames water has been handing rate-payers money out as dividends for decades without investing in infrastructure. We have had burst waterpipes about four times a year in our village. They mend a bit of pipe and a week later the road erupts about 5 meters further along the same pipeline.

It's hard to take instructions seriously when they are so blatantly one rule for some another for others. We are sticking to the ban, but that's because we care about the environment, not because we have any faith in or respect for the powers that issue the instructions.

Wow. This shit makes folk really angry. Feel sorry for you English lot.

So I think our water company have a massive cheek telling us to conserve water while they are wasting goodness know how much on a daily basis due to utter incompetence.

I totally agree, then their CEOs have the cheek to award themselves a huge bonus. It is so corrupt.

I can see why people ignore the ban

This is the bit that doesn't make sense to me because using up what currently appears to be a finite source won't magic up any when we run out. It is illogical. We are a captive audience.

I would rather protest by refusing to pay for a utility that I am not getting, and refusing to line the pockets of these dishonest CEOs. The water companies should never have been privatised.

IMO public services, public transport and utilities should belong to the people not private investors wanting huge dividends (jumps off soapbox).

Well said.

I can't believe that somebody on here actually asked if flowers are important.

FML. I'm embarrassed for ANYone who has to ask that. 😬