AIBU to want a relationship but feel it is impossible to tolerate a man? Anyone else?

The children often become used as weapons in a divorce, but there is little point in discussing this on MN.

If there are so many good men out there, why aren’t they calling out the bad ones? When men are together they are so often thoughtless, gross, pathetic ‘lads being lads’. Presumably at least some of them in these groups are the ‘good’ men some PP moon over. Either they’re too scared to call out bad attitudes (cowards) or they share them…

Plus, can I just point out that sooo many men in my age group (60s) are incredibly boring?

Oh please

That's not particularly fair - men rarely get custody of their children. And often even access is difficult.

Perhaps we should all be having phone sex then we don't have to even meet. The bloke could be at the sperm bank making his deposit. Is this why the birth rate is declining?

I totally agree. TBH I'm done with the drama, entitlement and sheer casual, inconsiderate selfishness of most men. I have been in a few long term relationships with men.. I am in one now..but honestly I wouldn't miss being with a man at this point in my life if he wasn't there.
When I was younger societal expectations were that a woman without a man (and more specifically a husband) were somehow lesser than their married sisters. Fortunately I think a lot of us have at last wised up to that nonsense! I'm really proud when I hear my nieces (in their teens/20s) saying they don't want/need a man in their lives, that they don't like how many men/boys treat them, and I can see that they have full lives independent of males or male approval.
If men feel lonely/misunderstood/undervalued that's a 'them' problem, not ours to fix. If females don't want to be in relationships with them then maybe they need to do a bit of work on themselves to understand why.
And before anyone accuses me of being a man hater.. I'm not. I often enjoy male company, just can't see myself wanting to be in a 'relationship' with one ever again.
So OP-YANBU, I totally get where you are coming from!

The outcomes for children raised by single mothers are apparently far worse than those raised by single fathers, so clearly men have a big influence. I'll caveat that by saying I haven't read the actual data. It was raised by the somewhat odious Andrew Wilson in a debate I watched. He's generally pretty well researched though even if he is a prize 🍆.

I don't believe this for a second and I'd love to see the data that supposedly backs this up.

Men are the problem though. There are more likely to be violent or abusive or gaslighters or cheats or abandon their children. There are thousands of single mothers? How many single fathers. Its not all men but it's a bloody huge proportion

Just get yourself a rabbit, their are good men out there but the exhaustion involved in finding one isnt worth it. Being single is so liberating, I have 3 children from my marriage. I love being single my cats are much nicer than anyman I ever met.

I am not sure why you'd be surprised? Men and women are people, just as good or as bad as each other.

MN posters are a majority of women. SOME of them are really nasty, confrontational, petty, jealous, bitter, uneducated and bullies. Hopefully these posters are single and child-free, but you feel sorry for any partner (male or female) they could have. If you've been in an all-girl school, lived or worked in a female environment, you cannot pretend woman as a group are superior.

There's nothing wrong in being single, just weird to think that "men" are the problem (and women aren't).

Yep same for me, every man I been with since I started dating has caused me pain and stress in some form or another. In my 50s now and just have no faith whatsoever that any relationship will work out so I’ve given up. I wonder if it’s me but I have a wide circle of friends who all love me, tell me I’m a lovely person etc, and that I just pick the wrong man! But like you OP I don’t interview prospective boyfriends to make sure they’re a bad ‘un!!

One of my best friends is a bisexual woman and she surprised me by saying women are just as likely to be difficult, abusive or emotionally unavailable as men in her experience.

I just categorise myself as someone who is no longer available for romantic relationships and I know I am far happier single than I have ever been when married or coupled up, aside from those first few early months of madness.

I do think it’s very insulting when people imply or state there’s something fundamentally wrong with those who choose a single life.

We can’t just prefer different ways of living?

I don't think I've ever really met a woman with commitment issues.

I personally think that men are more likely to have less positive traits than women do. Obviously, there are women who are difficult to be in a relationship with. I do not deny that, but men are far more likely!

You can have children on your own, you know?
look up Single Mother By Choice - lots of women taking on motherhood without men.
in some ways it’s easier to do it yourself

I come from a family of very strong women. All divorced ( but remarried).
DH and I didn't start a family for twelve years. We married young and built our careers. Something had to give when the DC were born and my husband isn't an ambitious man. He was happy to do pick ups and housework.
In fact he became lovelier as he got older. He's very moral and actually stopped speaking to his brother over infidelity. He's a rare fish in his culture. His father wasn't easy but mine was so he adopted him I think.

I have a close group of friends in their early sixties. Some widowed, come divorced. None would want a new partner bar one who likes to turn the tables on men. She's rich, pretty and non comprising these days. Chucks them out before breakfast!
I have a son and hope he is decent. He has a long term girlfriend and hasn't played the field. He is planning on marriage and family with her and that's ok. His father would give him a hard time if he abandoned his children.
I only said I wouldn't marry again because I don't want domestic dudgery. I'd eat fruit and cheese and mind my own business. I'm happy in my own company having traveled extensively for work.
I'll probably go first anyway!
OP needs to make her own choice but know you have the right to change your mind.
Fwiw I still get interest at 60!

Always amazed that people go out with a handful of arseholes and then extrapolate from a sample of 3-5 a generalisation about an entire gender.

When I was dating, any man who made any generalisation about "all women..." or "women do/don't do this..." was an instant reject. I cringed every time I met a man who generalised about women, even if it wasn't an overtly misogynistic generalisation it just sounded so hard of thinking and limited of experience. In much the same way I don't think any of the women in this thread generalising about men are doing themselves any favours.

The other thing is that as heterosexual women, none of you actually know what it's like to be in a relationship with a woman. Most of the posters on this thread have never experienced living with a woman in a domestic coparenting setup - the thing you say brings the worst out of men. There are a handful of lesbian posters on this thread who've said that relationship drama is no different with women.

And on top of that so many people confuse incompatibility with being an arsehole. So many relationship complaints aren't about either person being wrong per se, but neither person realising that they're incompatible and don't actually need to go out with each other. Real, true compatibility is really rare (I think I've only actually met 2, maybe 3, men I might have been genuinely compatible with, and I'm married to one of them). The vast majority of men aren't going to tick all the boxes you need. That's normal. It doesn't mean they're arseholes.

I understand this totally.

I really don’t think all men are awful but it’s the finding one who isn’t that is so challenging- because there’s ultimately no way of knowing for sure if you’ve got a good or bad one before you have kids. I mean there can be clues but you read so much about men hiding their abuse traits until you’re trapped.

I’m already divorced and have two kids from my marriage and have a decent job so no real need for another serious relationship. A casual one would be fine though!

There's an obvious bias here clearly. Those raised by single mothers likely with absent or poor/abusive fathers will have worse outcomes because their male role models are shoddy and treat their mothers terribly. Thats the behaviour that is modelled. Conversely those raised by single fathers by the mere fact the fathers have stuck around makes it likely those are good ones so those boys will be modelling good male behaviours. Its certainly not rocket science but no surprise that the men try to pin it on the women left behind who cannot and do not just choose to not parent when it suits them not the feckless pathetic useless absent fathers!!

I haven't read the thread ao my reply on based on the op.

I have had a few relationships but they don't last. Personally for me I feel like some men are selling dreams. On their best behaviour. Seem lovely. Kind , fun, loving. It can last quite a while. Have kids with them they also become a child. And often even in their 50s their mummy's are still looking after them. I didn't realise how badly I was treated by my ex. Because it was mixed with kindness .i don't think it was abusive. But it was selfish and I was worthless compared to him. I came last in everything.

But also I have never really wanted to ve in a relationship. Its more because that's what expected. But i did want children.

I am not sure about that from life experience and my own eyes. There are a lot more single parent families around here, the DC with single fathers definitely have it worse, men don’t always do the obvious, as an aside I think Andrew Wilson is a disturbed person, he is probably the worst of mankind when it comes to slatting women. I could not put my ears through listen to his disgusting BS.
I would like to see the research.
Having two parents is better than one but can’t see a single man raising children would be better than a single mother.

The outcomes for children raised by single mothers are apparently far worse than those raised by single fathers, so clearly men have a big influence. I'll caveat that by saying I haven't read the actual data. It was raised by the somewhat odious Andrew Wilson in a debate I watched. He's generally pretty well researched though even if he is a prize 🍆.

I’ve been divorced for twenty years and have had a couple of 2/3 year relationships in that time.
I don’t think I want to live with a man again - I love my home, my space and my freedom to make decisions just for me - but it really makes me sad that there isn’t anyone in this world who things I’m special and lights up their life (kids and good friends notwithstanding).
I’m about to retire and have always had long term plans and couldn’t bear the thought of meeting someone and being tied down here.
But of course, conversely, I fully accept that if I did meet “the one” all these considerations might fly out of the window. 🙄

I’m in my early 40s and resigning myself to not being in a relationship again, not because it’s impossible to potentially find one, it’s that with early menopause (chemo based) my energy for sticking rose tinted anything over behaviour I can see has been so deeply ingrained in men by patriarchy has vanished.

its not that I don’t like men, I work in a mostly male environment and I love the lads, but they are by socialisation often thoughtless, patronising, entitled, and dismissive, even without meaning to be, and I can’t be arsed.