AIBU to think PC Harper's killers being released early is awful?

I was looking at the graph of imprisonment shown on newsnight last night and I don’t understand the premise that prison places will increase over the next few years. Looking at the last few years, the numbers have bounced up and down but a broadly straight line trajectory across the period. Then suddenly from next year there is predicted a precipitous rise.

Ive not seen any explanation of the modelling for this.

Secondly, if the modelling IS correct, over 36% of places in the women prison estate is for theft from shops. (It’s 2-3% in male estate). About half of the steady long term women prisoners are there for violence offences, but the rest fall to drugs- usually tied to addiction and or coercive control by men. The women’s estate is small, but I think c. 2000 places could be freed up if these women were released instead.

I don’t believe the S Act cannot be quickly amended to carve out the small group of further offences these criminals fall into- I would be looking at something based on aggravating features and link to emergency workers, almost makes it bespoke. I do wonder what other awful crimes committed by criminals this Act will release which haven’t hit the headlines or don’t have the advocacy PC Harper has. I’m really sorry for victims and their families who will be affected by this, it doesn’t feel like justice, does it?

Why focus on one murder are there not other murderers potentially set for release? It would make more of an impact if they said 40 murderers set for early release rather than focus on one police officers death especially since there is a lot of negative feelings towards the police lately (yes im sure he was "one of the good ones" but people see a uniform first)

And soon that will be the only type of justice that people will feel they can rely on as they watch grinning, champagne popping criminals who should still be in jail, slide and creep, leering, around their streets.

Badly thought through in more ways than one. Still, what do you expect from a pig but a grunt!

The manner of his death was horrific and the thought of his suffering must be a constant torment to his poor family.

I wonder why it is impossible to build new prisons. They seem to be able to throw up whole hosing estates in less than three months.

In what world, does anyone with even the wit with of a portly hamster, see that prisons are becoming overcrowded and shout, " I know! Let's release the prisoners! Drinks all round!

Instead of shouting, " I know! Let's build more prisons!"

It is actually how the law works. Watch, I fought the law (Ann Ming mother of Julie). Abuse such as coercive control didn't fit in, so laws were changed and new ones made. The new Hillsborough law is another example. Hate speech was extended from a previous law. I've longed believed that passengers should bare responsibility about the cars they get in. We hold women responsible when their partner stashes drugs in the house.
There's enough men to release who are the perpetual shoplifters etc because of drugs. Those who committed fraud and similar non violent offences. Then we have the criminals from outside of the UK. We need residential rehab akin to prison. Deport the four thousand non citizens. Tbh, most women prisons could be emptied and put the men in there. It isn't fair that women are getting custodial sentences for a lot less than men, because men's prisons are full.

It's a chat forum, we aren't in a court of law. Like all the other threads on here we share opinion. Hope that helps.

I was actually responding to a pp who thought the other 2 were oblivious innocent passengers, they had no idea what was going on it was <checks notes> maybe a stick?

'Lynch mob mentality'
Yes it's horrific isn't it, feral criminals. None of the 3 have ever shown any remorse. You'd think that would count in this lovely get of jail free system wouldn't you?!

You’re a mind reader now? Fortunately clairvoyance isn’t admissible in a court of law.

Haven't you heard of joint enterprise? They knew exactly what was going on.

Lynch mob mentality.

The two under consideration for early release were NOT driving the car! They were passengers. Hence the manslaughter conviction. Why do we find it so difficult to comprehend the difference?

So you can't prove it then, and you are indeed full of hot air.

Thank you for confirming.

So you admit you've let PC Harper and his family down just as badly then?

Good to know.

Maybe you can spearhead the retrial, since you know so much? No?

'A branch'. Fgs. A16 stone branch. Were you on the jury?!

It must be awful for ALL victims if an offender is on the list for early release so spare a thought for them too.

'Full of hor air'. How patronising. I'm furious that these killers are being patted on their heads and sent on their way as you should be too.

There are enough police/court documentaries for us all to know many people get murder when they hadn't set off that morning with an 'I'm going to murder someone today' idea in their heads but when circumstances change and they intend to then it is indeed murder.

Prove they knew it was an adult.

Prove they knew it wasn't the quad bike, or a branch, or another piece of debris.

In the dark, in a car with no lights on, in a chaotic situation. Prove they knew beyond any reasonable doubt that it was a human they were pulling.

Prove it. Go on.

'Oh of course they must have known" isn't evidence, no matter how much you wish it to be''

It should have been evidence! Anyone who drives would say you can tell if you have a flat tyre nevermind dragging an adult behind you.

They'll be banged up again so the whole thing has been a waste of time and caused immense distress to PC Harper's family and friends when other options are available to free up spaces.

They've never shown any remorse. That in itself should cancel their pathetic get out of jail free card.

So why didn't you offer your services to the prosecution team? If you're so confident you could have secured a murder conviction then you've let PC Harper and his family down just as badly as the prosecution and the courts. How dare you keep that information from them.

Or, maybe, you're full of hot air and don't actually understand the law.

'Manslaughter was very obviously the correct conviction here, given the sequence of events and the lack of provable intent or premeditation'

Yes we know it wasnt premeditated, there wasn't google searches on how to drag people to their death or anything. Well, not sure they use Google I believe they're illiterate.

They set out to steal but the phone call reporting the theft stated they had weapons so I think the cps could've surmised that they were indeed intending to kill anyone who got in their way and again if you drag someone a mile driving at high speeds they clearly intended to kill him then.

I hope the prosecution team have been on some refresher training courses since.

in the moment clearly intended

This is the key point. Clearly intended. Which could not be proven in the Harper case.

That is what you cannot seem to get into your head. "Oh of course they must have known" isn't evidence, no matter how much you wish it to be.

A murder conviction for these three was never possible in the circumstances. Manslaughter however very much so. Would you rather they walked free? Because if the court had gone for murder or nothing then that's where we'd be now.

I really struggle to understand the outcome of this case and why not murder. On the other hand I was not in that court room, I don’t have all of the facts to hand to make a full decision and I’m not the CPS person having to weigh everything and take a risk that they might walk free.

It's crazy isn't it. Pp saying sniffily how thick we are to not understand. I've seen people charged with murder who equally didn't have weeks of premeditation and planning but in the moment clearly intended to kill someone. Same as these 3.

So yes yes while we know they got manslaughter most with any braincells know the cps/jury/ system were very wrong and it should have been murder because whilst they may not initially intended to murder PC Harper once they'd dragged him a mile the intent was there!