To find this view re autism frustrating

ABA therapy s very controversial
And whist we have never looked into it if it can help a non verbal child commnicate im not going to judge
But you get the very vocal on line advocates
Saying things the Autitistic coomunity dont agree with it
Like they have any say
And i have news for Autistic community
There is more than one Autistic community

Why doesn’t it exist though?

Autistic people are known to have an increased incidence of mental health issues.
OCD, the condition DS has, is more prevalent in autistic people than it is in people who don’t have autism.

Why are CAMHS or adult mental health services allowed to discriminate against autistic people in this way? The adult MH service literally said to him ‘we will not help you with your mental illness because you’re autistic’.

DS wasn’t looking for social training or training with regulation. He wants help with the hugely debilitating OCD that is ruining his life.

The mental health services should not be allowed to ignore people like him.
They should not be allowed to ignore him because he’s a more complicated case.

Surely it’s discrimination?

Yes and yet if one suggested the child isnt disabled and autism isnt a disability because is a social issue/environmental issue and therefore autism doesnt really exist, Im sure she wouldnt like that

If it is solely for society to change and therefore her child would be 'ok' then her child doesnt have any condition do they.

The terminology can be confusing.

Neurodiversity includes everyone, all types of brains. So everyone is neurodiverse in that sense.

People usually mean neurodivergent (rather than neurotypical) when they say neurodiverse, but it’s not actually the correct term.

I attended an online parenting seminar recently where the psychologist drummed that into us 😅

ETA I also hear what @Pairlesssocks is saying re neurodiversity. These concepts are all fairly recent constructs really.

I have seen some crazy online autism activists who accuse any therapy or teaching of trying to train out autism, including things like social stories or speech and language therapy. It is almost as if they think autistic children uniquely do not need support to learn or develop unlike all other children.

I know an activist late diagnosed autistic mum of an autistic child who has taken this approach with her child. Their child is now much more disabled than they would otherwise be as she believes it is entirely for society to change to fit her child. The child (now nearly adult) is autistic and would always have had difficulties. If they weren’t autistic you might refer to them as ‘spoilt’ through constant indulgence. Some people would hugely object to me saying that but being autistic doesn’t stop you from being harmed in that way too.

Well, it's definitely another interesting "challenge" regarding the words we use to describe things. As someone with what I'd consider moderate ADHD, which is disabling, it's definitely helpful to have a word that describes this type of disability and one that describes people who don't have one like it - and I have lived with plenty of people who definitely do not have either ADHD or autism. However, having also had some of the other things on the list and known others with these too, I can also see how they disable as well in a way that might be seen to make them neurologically atypical. Maybe neuro-disabled would be a better term vs nonneurodisabled? Obviously that disability comes in degrees.

Im sure I will. I dont care about that. These are the resources needed.

It cant be considered that a person has a debilitating disability but at the same time dismiss the routes to mitigating and managing some of that so that life is easier.

When people complain for example that 'CAMHS arent interested', this is the basis of therapy to some degree anyway so what is it people want exactly, for them to get better or not get better?

People with autism need social training, training in self recognition, training in self management and regulation techniques.

Careful, you will be accused of wanting to train their autism away!

This is the massive gap though

CAMHS are a mental health service, they are not an ND service (apart from some areas of the country have an ND pathway within CAMHS which solely exisits to diagnose and then do medication reviews for ADHD)

Autism is not a MH condition, there is no specific service or at least patchy hotch podge of services that could support people with ASD/ADHD with comorbid MH issues.

People with autism need social training, training in self recognition, training in self management and regulation techniques. They need specialist input because some of the usual offerings even if you get that from CAMHS like CBT is not always effective for people on the spectrum.

But it doesnt exist as far as I know.

Yep this.

And this is why there were gradients and Aspergers. My sibling has aspbergers, thats their diagnosis

They are in no way shape or form suffering from a similar condition as my colleagues children who cannot live independently, non verbal, incontinent etc.

‘Neurodiverse’ or ‘neurodivergent’ does not just mean ASD, ADHD, OCD and anxiety. It also means dyspraxia, dyslexia, high IQ, low IQ, dyscalculia, FASD, epilepsy, left handedness, acquired brain injury (including cerebral palsy, stoke, physical injury), dementias, schizophrenia, depression, young age, old age, pubescent, parasitic infections, sensory processing disorders, sensory impairments, polyglot, nutritional deficiencies, developmental language disorder, drug induced changes, Tourette’s, genetic conditions, attachment disorders, trauma….

There is no such thing as ‘neurotypical’ other than as a vague theoretical average. It is a bit like saying someone is ‘age typical’.

According to the Lancet recently, 1.19% of people are diagnosed with ADHD in the UK, when other countries accept the incidence is 3% - 5%.

I saw a woman wearing a t shirt, with the logo “ADHD is a super power”. I was with DD2, who was diagnosed with ADHD, by the NHS ten years ago. I asked her, if it felt like a super power - she replied, it certainly did not. In DD’s case, it is nothing but disabling imo!

Very unlikely to all be diagnosed. Less than 2% of the population is formally diagnosed with either ADHD or autism individually. Although if people are including other conditions like OCD and anxiety who knows.

Absolutely no idea - it was not an environment where I felt safe asking that

@Agasagas @Variationofnormal
Thanks so much for understanding.

I completely understand. Ds2 has mutism and camhs wouldn't help after his suicide attempt even before his autism diagnosis. It terrifies me as he tripped over once and didn't speak (or communicate at all) when he was at a park run and someone called an ambulance. Thankfully he had his running number in his pocket otherwise nobody would have known who he was.

I find the restriction on info to help him as a result of the mutism incredibly frustrating. Unfortunately in our experience adult MH services are completely reactionary and they only step in when the shit really hits the fan but by then it’s all harder to treat. All my kids are autistic and under adult. It has been a horrific journey and a nightmare to navigate when they’re adult but need support and care. The autism dynamic care register can be helpful.

Where thay all diagnosed?

Yes, us too. We felt CAMHS ultimately blamed him for lack of engagement. But he has diagnosed communication difficulties (asd) so 🤷‍♀️

He did engage well with some of the clinicians, so I do think a lot was down to the skill of the practitioner too. Unfortunately staff turnover was high which never helps…

He’s 18 now and adult MH services have refused him help for his debilitating OCD behaviours “because he’s autistic”.
Their words.
So they’re not even going to try.
Sorry, just venting now I know 😳

Well, if it is a super power it’s a very common one given how many people have it.

I was in a meeting of 10 people the other day and the only one who did not declare themselves to be ‘neurodiverse’. So I’m not entirely sure what neurotypical even means….is it you find social things and life challenging at times? It seems to me that a lot of people who make a big deal of ‘being neurodiverse’ are perfectly able to function in society, they just like to make sure they are the centre of it.

The mutism has been incredibly difficult for us.

DS’s ASD diagnosis was with one professional only, a top expert in the area though.
We’re finding it impossible to get an OCD diagnosis with a diagnosis of autism already in place. Not helped by DS’s situational mutism of course.
But for us the ASD diagnosis was the more straightforward one.

They say the same about dyslexia. I am probably dyslexic, my ds1 is dyslexic and DS3 is autistic.

I know I have skills that others don't. I find it incredibly easy to see the bigger picture, to join dots and see patterns BUT while these skills have been very useful at work and probably are the reasons for my many promotions I still get shit for my spelling.

It's hard to see your traits as gifts when some of your other traits are roundly criticised.

A private autism diagnosis mist align with Nice guidelines if you want the NHS, local authorities, or educational settings to recognise and accept the diagnosis. Private costs £3k, not many can afford that so resort to right to choose which must keep to nice guidelines to maintain their qualifying NHS contracts.

The core principals of NICE-Compliant Assessment are that assessments must be conducted by a trained team of professionals (such as speech and language therapists, psychologists, and paediatricians or psychiatrists). They should have a detailed developmental history which is a comprehensive account of early development, childhood behaviors, and current functioning. They should collect independent observations and reports from multiple settings (like home, school, or workplace) and family members or carers and use standardised tools and clinical assessments such as ADOS-2 or ADI-R) combined with expert clinical observation mapped against ICD-11 or DSM-5 criteria. They should also assess for differential diagnoses and co-occurring conditions like ADHD, learning disabilities, or mental health difficulties.

My NHS diagnosis at 56 did all that and then some so no nothing like an OCD diagnosis. I’ve sat through both OCD and autism diagnoses with my children. They are a world apart. The OCD diagnosis was done in a half an hour by one professional.

Yanbu. I have 4 dc with autism. It's not a gift. They all have what used to be called aspergers syndrome. It's not as hard as ot is for people with autism and learning disabilities but it's not a gift either. My 18 year old tried to take his own life when he was 12, my 12 year old has been self harming since year 4.