Brownies incident stopped me singing, starting to see how messed up it was.

It depends on what the skill builder is. If it was first aid then no but if it was communicate then yes. There is only one correct way to do first aid but lots of different ways to communicate.

My dad (79) got told not to sing at school as a child as he was putting everyone else off. I have never heard him sing a note my whole life. It’s sad.

More solidarity here!
In my brownie pack, we were asked to record a group song for another brownie pack (possibly abroad, I can’t remember). I was about 7 or 8 and was singing my heart out, when “Tawnie Owl” interrupted and said “someone is singing flat, I think it’s you” and pointed at me. I was so shamed and humiliated. I didn’t sing in front of anyone again until I had my own kids who didn’t care how tuneless I was. I don’t deny that I can’t sing in tune but singing it something that is so joyful and given some encouragement many people can do. Just shutting kids down at a young age it so sad. Now I just sing in the car on my own. It makes me sad to think that so many kids who might enjoy this are shut out.

If children singing badly would annoy you ( and I understand that point of view as I am really triggered by some noises) then the chances are you won’t often find yourself in that situation. Imagine telling a child to mime though. In front of everyone. It’s one of my worst memories.
I sympathise with you op. I mean I’m well aware I can’t sing as I’m sure you are. I still mime. Everywhere! Church, funerals, my own wedding.
I’m just so glad I’m so darn gorgeous even if I can’t sing a note 😜🤫

there's a lot of grey area inbetween telling a 9yo to mime and telling a tone-deaf 9yo they sound amazing and should be a pop star.

Most reasonable adults would encourage the effort rather than lie and say they sound like an angel.

You've reminded me that I auditioned for my school choir when I was 7 and was rejected. In secondary school, the music teachers made it clear that they accepted everyone in the choir and they seemed to look down on primary schools that had a selective choir. This was the early 2000s.

It did knock my confidence with singing for years but now I'm always making up songs around the house. My husband and the small beings seem to enjoy them anyway. Perhaps my inability to hold a note is part of the charm.

But people can’t be good at everything. No need to be horrible to them about it of course but if in your example, someone makes a model and it falls apart but they get the badge anyway, surely at some point they realise that it wasn’t given because they made a good thing?

I am genuinely curious. It might be my ND but I would have realised that it was given for the sake of it rather than for doing something well and that would take the shine off it.

Maybe my thinking is why my experience of brownies and guides was hell!

To be fair the sound of children singing badly goes straight through me. I think it’s the pitch of their voices that does it - my ND means that high pitched noises can be physically painful.

But I think it’s okay to be realistic with them (diplomatically). You don’t want them to end up like some of the people on the X factor - convinced they have talent when they don’t!

Depends what the thing is. If it's putting someone in the recovery position, no, they need to be able to do that properly to be safe. If it's building a junk model that falls down, then probably yes. We might do what we can do repair or improve it, but ultimately it doesn't really matter if it works or not.

This whole thread is filled with people giving examples of where they were told as a child they weren't good at something, and it's stuck with them and affected them right into adulthood. Plenty of these posters probably actually could be ok singers or dancers etc, and get a lot of benefit and enjoyment from it, but have lost that because of a harsh word at the wrong time. I don't want to do that with my Brownies - we're a fun enriching club, not a test environment. I'd far rather they got a few badges that you might consider "meaningless," than put them off ever trying again.

I was asked to mime by my primary school teacher when I was about 9/10. I never sing now. Remind yourself it’s was them and not you.
I love to hear children sing and I couldn’t care if they don’t have a note in their head. They’ll learn that in their own time. It’s cruel to point it out when they’re so young and innocent.

So do they get the badge if you judge they have made the effort but are unsuccessful at whatever it is?

In guiding we have Interest Badges, Skill Builder badges and Theme Award badges. To achieve the Theme Award badge the girls have to gain an interest badge for the relevant theme and a Skill Builder badge from the same theme. There are if I remember correctly (new badges have recently been added) 6 Interest badges for each theme in brownies. Therefore most girls will find something they enjoy. We have never given out a Skill Builder badge unless a girl has completed the activity to the best of her ability and nor have we ever given out a Theme Award without both of the other badges being achieved. We know our girls so we know when they are putting the effort in and when they can’t be bothered.

I believe it’s a public forum, hence why I ‘waded in’.

Not defensive, but there was no need for you to wade in.

Not missing the point at all. But effort is not measurable and counts for little in any case.

A badge should be an indicator of being able to do something to a set standard. If it’s given to kids for effort, they are going to have a shock when they get older and realise that the burnt cakes or whatever that they produced in Brownies weren’t very good and not really deserving of praise and award.

But I admit I’m biased because I found the Brownies and Guides to be quite unpleasant.

You can set up your own excellence standards for a fun after-school club whenever you want, you know. People will be queuing up I get, sounds well fun

That's not what people are saying at all 🙄 not sure if you are genuinely missing the point or not.

This is brilliant news! I must be owed literally hundreds of thousands of awards for turning up to all manner of completely ordinary things in my lifetime. I never knew I was so special. I was always rubbish at swimming can I retrospectively have my gold award?

It's a motivational trinket to keep kids engaged with the programme, not a GCSE.

Have a day off.

Some on the thread think that turning up is worthy of an award 🙄

What? How is it unjust to fail a badge when you freely admit you can't sing? Of course it's painful to fail things but that's not a reason to pass someone.

I believe that making an effort is, indeed, praiseworthy, but she should have been better prepared by her pack leaders at the stage when she considered entering; she could indeed have entertained by singing, but there were other options (she mentions that the performer she watched played the spoons, a skill I have never mastered!) If she wanted to entertain her audience, was recreating a run of the mill assembly captivating for her audience? would a comic monologue better fit her talents, or some acrobatics? I remember one visiting Guide having us all in stitches with her rendition of "The Lion and Albert".
When I was in the Guides, I reached the stage where I was going for my "all round cords", a blue and white cord round the junction of arm and shoulder, representing all-round effort as you had to gain badges from several different skill groups. As far as the various options for aspects of First Aid, I was spoilt for choice, but in others..... for one group, one option was Pathfinder, and I still remember Captain's tact and kindness pointing out my poor sense of direction, in steering me towards another option in that skill group, i.e. Map Reader, which, with some effort, I could gain.

Or perhaps they should all be skills based with measurable success criteria

I think brownie badges are very different now. There are interest badges and skills builder badges. Perhaps a good way of distinguishing between wanting to succeed at the skill and actually succeeding...

What should have happened in OP's scenario is that it should have been made clear to the brownies, in relation to all badge attempts, that they were not guaranteed a pass and a badge, and would only get one if they produced a good result, as determined by the judges. And the brownie leader for their group should have had a chat with the brownie about what she would need to do to gain each badge. So in this case she should choose a song suited to the audience, should practise it and have a go at performing it in front of her parents, and make sure that she had it up to a good standard before the show. If this was a child who really couldn't sing in tune, then she should have been advised not to sing a song, but to do some other kind of performance. The judges were not at fault here.