Brownies incident stopped me singing, starting to see how messed up it was.

I don’t get what’s to ‘earn’. It would be better to say ‘given’ if everyone gets one just for taking part

Yes

They don't really 'win' a badge, they earn it. They earn it by giving the activity a go. With the majority of badges, there's no set standard to meet. It's not meaningless, just because there's no test/exam to pass/standard to reach.

So is the alternative to encourage them to do it despite the fact that everyone around them has to listen? Singing is one of those things that is inflicted on others in the vicinity!

It sounds impossible to ‘fail’ - therefore it is meaningless. Kids may see the badge as something they have won but if they get them regardless of how well they do, it’s not the case.

I think it’s surprising that they don’t work it out when they are older!

That may well be true, but if you put a child off singing at a young age, they may never go on to discover how good they could be as an adult.

You are really over thinking this! It's a brownie/cub badge. There won't be a chance again in a couple of months.

If we are working on the entertainer badge at cubs, we ask the cubs to do a short piece of entertainment, such as a sketch, play some music, tell jokes, sing a song.

We will practice one week, and put on the show for the parents the following week. If someone can't sing, then I might gently suggest something else for them do, or ask them to practice a bit - but if they want to sing, however badly, I'm not stopping them, or failing them.

I meant that, just because you are able to sing now, it doesn’t mean you could do so when you were a child. So she may have been correct at the time, and you have now acquired the skill at a high level since then.

With singing, if the child just sang badly (forgot the words and notes for instance), I would explain what went wrong and offer them the chance to try for the badge again a couple of months later, after more practice. Stressing that they do need to put thought and work into it to improve. Then they improve their skills and improve their work ethic (you need to work at some things, not just get a reward for minimal effort). If the child really can't sing in tune, I'd encourage them not to take the badge in the first place. They can take it when they're older, if appropriate. Some adults somehow manage to reach adulthood still not realising that they sing hopelessly out of tune. I was once in an unauditioned choir where one woman sang terribly out of tune, and it spoiled it for all the rest. Someone should have had the courage to tell her. Maybe a professional singing teacher could have helped her, I don't know.

The cake situation is unlikely to happen - if we are baking at cubs, then the kids are supervised, and we will use timers to take out the cakes, so the risk of burning is low. If they bake at home, we are unlikely to know if a cake got burned, as they will probably just try again and won't bring in the first attempt.
But even then, if they have given it a go, I'd still give them the badge if they had tried.

For singing, there's no requirement that the song should be enjoyable, although of course that would be the ideal. If they've tried, they get the badge. It's a kids entertainment badge. There's no auditions, so no level of talent is required. What if they'd got up and told some jokes that you thought weren't funny? Would you fail that child?

They do - and the poster who said that she’s now a chorister etc may have sounded terrible as a child but improved as an adult

Which is exactly why you don't fail a singing child for a brownie badge! You could put the child off for life, and they may have gone on to have a lovely singing voice.

Oh OP!

I am so sorry that’s awful.

I had a similar thing. Singing happily in the car and my nan told me my singing was awful - the worst she has heard. Never sang again after that.

In guiding the girls work on different Skill Builders. There are 6 different themes Be Well, Have Adventures, Know Myself, Skills for my Future, Express Myself and Take Action. There are 6 different levels and which levels you do depend on which section you are in. Brownies can work on levels 2 & 3. Within each theme there are two skill builders the girls can choose from. The two for the Be Well theme are Feel Good and First Aid so it is up to the girls if they do first aid or not.

@Anarchy99 yes I think so but she obviously didn’t!😂

They do - and the poster who said that she’s now a chorister etc may have sounded terrible as a child but improved as an adult.

There should be a minimum level of achievement. Like bake a cake that looks and tastes like a cake and would be acceptable food for your average person. That leaves plenty of scope for children who want to produce something better than that. I would not pass a burnt cake or a cake where they'd used salt instead of sugar. And a song should be reasonably enjoyable to listen to, even if the singing is a little too quiet and they struggle with a note or two.

Yes, voices change.

At our quite posh girls’ school, a first year always sang the opening carol at the concert. My older sister was very musical so the music teacher assumed I would be too. At the audition on the school stage - this barely audible little breathy whisper came out of my mouth “Once in Royal David’s City….”. I hadn’t even finished the first line when the music teacher shouted “Off!” Brutal - I was gutted!

Honestly I never sang again for 40years - not even by myself in the car.

Anyway at a party a few years ago, full of drink, I had a go on the karaoke & to my amazement I was quite good. We bought our own machine & I love it! I’m not Celine Dion obvs but I’m not bad at all.

Were you any good at the time though?

OP you have my sympathies, people can be so cruel.

I am a music teacher and musical director of a choir. When I was at school I auditioned for the school musical and was told by an alumna who auditioned me (she was on a v popular tv show in those days so it was a big deal) that I couldn’t sing. Hmm. Well I became head chorister at my church choir and have been a singing teacher on and off over the last 30 years as well as directing countless school choirs.

Some people are just awful!

I do remember having to carry a 2p coin in my pocket for the phone in case of emergency! Some things have definitely changed!

In my experience, guides has changed massively from my day. My friend runs a brownies group, and they do pretty much the same things as my cubs do - so craft, sports, cooking, trips, camping, DIY, debates, climbing, archery, canoeing - all sorts of things!

Fair enough, I just don’t think valuing the effort despite a bad result is healthy,

We were told first aid was compulsory in guides (1982 ish). it may have been just our leader who told us this. I only remember that because I was able to use it as a way to leave the organisation!

I don’t know how much has changed but it had nothing to offer someone who wasn’t girly or sporty!

I suppose we are all different - I really, truly believe that effort should be rewarded. I can't speak for the guides, but as far as my cubs are concerned, as long as they work hard at it, they get the badge. If a certain level is needed (ie. tie three knots), we will help them practice until they get it. There's not exam or test as such. It is slightly different for swimming etc, but they tend to do this out of cubs, and bring in their certificates to show they've reached the required standard.

Was first aid ever compulsory in guides? I was a guide in the 80's, and don't remember doing it - although that is a long time ago! Certainly in scouts it's not compulsory (except for the leaders), but is encouraged.

It is clear from this thread that people remember that they did something badly in their childhood whether or
not they got the badge. I remember doing some things badly despite effort and the thought that someone would have given me praise/an award would make me cringe even harder.

Out of interest, is first aid still compulsory in guides?

I pressed send too soon and then corrected my comment.

So something like the entertainment badge, is it not an acknowledgement of a skill? Or is it an acknowledgement that someone has put in sufficient effort in the opinion of the leader. The second, on the whole . The child took part in show to entertain.

Would it not upset the child when they are older to realise it was perceived effort, not result, that was behind it? I doubt it. I really wouldn't think that a 15 year old child, say, looked back at their cub badges and gave it much thought. Unless it was something they discovered a love of - it might be that an activity they tried at cubs led to a hobby, interest, or even career later in their childhood/adulthood.