Brownies incident stopped me singing, starting to see how messed up it was.

I remember being really excited to join the school choir at age 7. My brother was older and was in the choir and I was always hearing he had a beautiful voice. We had to audition and I failed and was told I was a 'growler'. I sobbed my heart out and didn't sing for years. Still mime at weddings. To add insult to injury, when some members of the choir didn't want to be in it anymore I was asked if I wanted to join now...No Thank You!....You said I couldn't sing, remember??
I love singing on my own and at rock concerts where it's loud 😆

And you should have got the badge, you’d put the work into preparing a piece and got up on stage to perform it. It wasn’t a graded music exam.

Then shouldn't it have been a courage badge?

Same. When I was in Brownies and Guides earning a badge meant something and you could wear it on your sleeve with pride. Now, apparently, it just means you tried. I never earned my knitting badge because, though I tried very hard, I simply couldn't knit and still can't. Nowadays I'd get it just because I wanted it, apparently.

At what age should children be introduced to the idea that they aren't good at something?

I never sing in public, or in front of anyone, rarely even when by myself. I overheard my Mother phoning my teacher (I was 8) to ask if she was sure I should join the school choir (open to everyone!) as I couldn’t sing. Strange what sticks with you.

I agree. She should have got it for having the courage to perform. It was just an entertainer brownie badge for an 8 year old, not entry to a Conservatoire.

They were wrong to fail you, OP (well, unless you sang Three Old Ladies Locked In The Lavatory). Quite a lot of old people could be very harsh and blunt in the 80s.

As an aside, those kids on the hymn book look like they're about to steal some poor bugger's dinner money!

That’s awful! I think the fact you got up, with a prepared piece and actually did it that is enough, we’re not all bloody Barbara Streisand!
id put it behind you and think they were a bunch of power crazed political dickhead who shouldn’t be doing such jobs

Brutal!

I have a family member that sent a pic off to Tony Hart who apparently promised to send all pics back if they weren't featured. It didn't get featured, and never got returned and she was really upset. She said it put her off drawing for life (although I think she was saying this with a bit of a silly twinkle in her eye rather than actually having been affected for more than a couple of weeks).

@Goditsmemargaret - OMG, your post made me emotional! Especially the bit about singing to your baby 😭 Happy people sing, whether it's in tune doesn't matter x

OP, selfishly I'm so pleased to hear that Squirrels has been a positive experience for your son or daughter.
I'm a Squirrel leader and we reward effort and being brave enough to put yourself forward. Any of our drey would get a standing ovation if they were ballsy enough to sing Infront of the whole group.

Scouts is not an examination board, our purpose is to gently challenge children to enable them to grow new skills, to be proud and to develop as positive members of a wider community.
Our purpose is not to (literally) judge children and cut them off at the knees when they're doing their best.

I mean its brownies not the olympics. Its for fun. If a child has put the effort in, done the activity I dont see why they can't get a badge

The badge isn't for being an amazing singer, its for planning some form of entertainment and performing it to an audience

Total empathy from me - I was made to MIME in the school nativity as my singing was so bad.

I was 7.

This book?

Wow what horrible old women they were!

The thought that they sat their judging your singing ability rather than appreciating your confidence and judging your ability to perform make me a bit mad on your behalf OP!

You achieved the badge - you planned and delivered your song. There's no specific rule that the notes need to be pitch perfect fgs! How many 8 year olds sound like Leona Lewis anyway?

As a singer and singing teacher, it breaks my heart when children are told not to sing. It’s actually quite rare for someone to be tone deaf; some people take a little longer to develop their listening skills.
Anyway, re the OP - it’s an Entertainer badge, you got up in front of an audience and entertained them! Those old ladies should be ashamed of themselves!

Those Brown Owls took no prisoners.
I still think of others before myself, and do a good turn every day ( age 62).

I know someone who has not sung out loud in public since she was told she was no good at singing as a child. She goes to Church weekly and mimes.

At my primary school we had a choir - we all had to audition by singing a few lines. Out of around 60 kids, all but 8 got in. They were made to do drama or crafts instead. Even then I remember thinking it was so cruel as those kids were embarrassed and probably carry that memory with them. And it wasn't like the majority of us were great singers - adding 8 bad singers wouldn't have made a noticeable impact.

Still haunted by a similar experience, childhood is so bloody hard at time and somethings cut so deep you never forget them.

I was at the sort of school where you were asked not to sing hymns in assemblies if the teachers didn’t like your voice. I finally conquered that one by having a course of singing lessons in my 30s, and joining a Gilbert and Sullivan society. I’m not exactly Maria Callas, but I can hold a tune, and because I have a low-ish voice, I can usually sing the tenor part, which is very useful because there’s often a shortage of men.

I am a rainbows leader and both rainbows and brownies get their badges for just showing up and taking part. Neither myself or any leaders I know in any section would deny a child a badge for not being competent in a skill. They are children. There for fun!

Im sorry this happened to you. It should not have done

I’m glad I went to brownies and school and everything else before they started participation awards - everyone getting the award despite not doing well in a task if just something I can never agree with.

I would steer my kid into performing in a way they could actually do with success. I wouldn’t get angry if they didn’t get an award when they didn’t do well.

Brownie leader here and I disagree! I will always award a badge if a Brownie has shown she has put the effort in, even if the results aren't great.

That's not to say they get them without meeting the criteria - e.g. if they need to produce 3 paintings but only do 1, I'll tell them they need to go and do more - but if they have done 3 paintings in the styles suggested in the badge book, they'll get a badge, even if they're not going to be hanging in the Louvre any time soon. Likewise any Brownie who is brave enough to stand up and perform in front of the pack will get a badge.

I only withhold badges if a girl has been absent for the relevant meetings, or if they've messed around and not contributed to an activity - particularly when this has safety implications e.g. first aid.

More recent versions of the badge book have their flaws, but have moved away from a focus on achievement to more process-oriented criteria. This annoys me sometimes as the language is woolly and can be hard for girls to understand what they need to do, but it does mean we can respect their efforts more. We don't need to be trashing the confidence of 8 year olds.

@Magenta82 I'm sorry this is still bothering you. Well done for having the initiative to request a challenging badge and putting on a show though!

I saw your thread title and was immediately sent back to school when I auditioned for the school choir and was told that I couldn't join because I wasn't good enough.

I didn't sing for years after that to anyone else although I sang in my bedroom because I always loved it and years later here I am as a grown woman singing in a covers band and being complimented by lots of people on my voice and regretting it so much that I never pursued music as a career because actually I think I would have been pretty good.

I think things were pretty harsh at the time that we were children and adults were often unpleasant to kids in a way that we wouldn't be now.

And as a scout leader all I can say is that we will always give the badges to children as long as they try their hardest and have obviously put effort in. Because that's what it's about it's not about being a world-class whatever.

They were bitter and twisted. They'd been in the brown bobble brigade for too long. Perhaps you had the ill timed slot right before refreshments and they were thinking about tea urn timings and fruit cake.
I call for an enquiry!

Completely disagree with @Skippyasyermuni . We all got the Entertainer badge for doing our best even if it was pretty rubbish-certainly didn't need to be a competent performer by any objective standard. It was about gaining confidence and having a go, like all the other badges (as I recall, our cookery badge involved warming baked beans by holding a candle underneath an open tin of baked beans, because we had no facilities). Hate to break it to people who still feel proud of their armful of badges 😂

Singing is such a personal thing, OP, and feeling you can't do it is a vicious circle because you then tense up and that makes it even harder. Sorry you had an upsetting experience- you probably have a nicer voice than you think.