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Original poster

Brownies incident stopped me singing, starting to see how messed up it was.

384 replies

Magenta82 · 04/08/2026 10:18

When I (44) was 8 I went to a big division meet up, not many people from my pack went. There was show put on by another group as part of their Entertainer badge, they played the spoons. Someone then described the award and I thought it sounded like fun. I went back and badgered the leaders until they agreed to do it.

We did a big group show for all the parents and everyone had to do an individual piece as well, some at the show and some on a normal Brownies night. I chose to do it at the show.

I decided to sing from my school hymn book (the blue one with the ugly kids on the front #4 Autumn Days), on my own, in front of everyone with no musical accompliment. The "judges" were 3 quite elderly ladies from some kind of group of retired Brownie leaders or something (trefoil?). They failed me. I didn't get the badge.

Now admittedly I can't carry a tune in a bucket but still! I was basically put off singing for life, gave up trying, if I was so bad I couldn't get a brownie bade I must be the worst in the world.

It seemed unjust at the time, but now I have a child in Squirrels I really just how fucked up it really was.

AIBU

OP posts:
Tweedledeedledum · 04/08/2026 12:16

Oh, this brings back memories! When I was starting would now be year 7 after singing a few songs in our music lesson everyone was made to sing on their own until they got to me. I was told I was spoiling it for everyone else and from then on was required to bring a book! For 5 years!
Then, when my eldest was about 4, I was joining in with the Postman Pat theme tune and he said 'let the man sing it himself, mummy'.
Safe to say singing is not my forte!

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 04/08/2026 12:16

It depends entirety on your approach to badges. If you think that they are for kids to show that they can meet a certain standard of an activity then they did the right thing. If you think guiding should be about girls having a safe space to try activities out and boost their confidence then no it wasn't. I grew up in the first, am now very much part of the second.

Delphiniumandlupins · 04/08/2026 12:15

Redintoothandclaw · 04/08/2026 12:08

8 is more than old enough to sing in tune. You shouldn't get a badge for singing if you don't sing the right notes.

Show quote history

I know people say that anyone can be taught to sing but it's not a skill most 8 year old would think they need to acquire. Those of us who don't sing in tune are singing the "right notes", just not in the right order.

MidLifeMeh01 · 04/08/2026 12:15

That is some BS, I’m so sorry OP! I’m a theatre and voice teacher, there’s a MASSIVE difference between gaining an award in a professional performance area (eg LAMDA or musical grades) and something like Brownies which is much more about effort and participation.

For example, what professional vocal training were they able to provide in Brownies all those years ago? Did those stuck up judges give any actionable feedback, or just deem you below par? It’s completely irresponsible to judge young people on a criteria you are not actively supporting them to develop.

Confidence and self belief are VITAL in performance, and much harder to teach than technical proficiency. Some people, to this day, LOVE tearing even very young people down to make themselves feel better and convince themselves it’s all part of the ‘biz’.

I hope you can find a space to use and enjoy your voice now, you should never have been made to feel it wasn’t ’good enough’ xx

leporello · 04/08/2026 12:15

Princejoffyjaffur · 04/08/2026 11:40

I had a similar experience, not quite the same, but had a similar affect. Was demoted from being cub scout Seconder and THEY CUT THE SECONDER BADGE FROM MY ARM in front of whole cub troop. Apparently I was too shy to be a seconder. Never really got over it.

Jesus wept! What is wrong with some people? I'm outraged for you.

I wasn't allowed in the school choir at 7 (I was a growler) but my voice changed completely within a year and by secondary school I was singing principal roles in the school's annual G&S productions. Growler at 8 can be angelic choir by 11.

honeylulu · 04/08/2026 12:14

Ouch that's not nice. I get that you are supposed to achieve an objective to gain a badge but surely completing the task (singing to an audience) fulfils the entertainment requirement. As you say they were entertained so was tunefulness an essential requirement? Entertainment is subjective rather than objective.

Teachers/leaders were brutal in those days. I auditioned for the school choir and was rejected and called a "growler" (haha). I definitely think sometimes things have gone too far with prizes for everyone - there needs to be some sort of balance to prepare kids for life. But it would have made far more sense for the leaders to encourage amd guide you with developing your singing voice or suggesting an alternative entertainment activity. I did the Entertainment badge at guides and we did a show comprised of skits, singing and a bit of stand up comedy, playing to everyone's strengths. (I did not sing, unsurprisingly.)

The only badge I actually failed was Communications etc where our team was supposed to communicate messages in semaphore, morse code etc. We tried but didn't get a single one right and failed, now that was fair enough.

TinyGingerCat · 04/08/2026 12:14

My DD was entered by her primary school into a local music competition and she was failed in public because she used a backing track to accompany her rather than a real human on the grand piano. No one had told us or the school that was what she needed (and dear god at the age of 8 I was not going to pay for an accompanist). DD is now a conservatoire trained professional musician and she dreams of hunting that woman down and ramming her music where the sun don’t shine.

ThatCyanCat · 04/08/2026 12:12

FairKoala · 04/08/2026 12:11

I would say that everyone can sing. They might sound like Whitney Houston or Johnny Vegas but it’s still singing. It’s having the confidence to stand up in front of everyone and sing

As Eric Morecambe would say. You sang all the right notes just not necessarily in the right order.

Show quote history

Everyone can learn to sing in tune (barring disabilities etc that might prevent it). They won't all have beautiful tone or fantastic technique, but everyone can learn to be in tune.

AugustDieSheMust · 04/08/2026 12:11

My good friend, now well into her 70s, was told to mime at primary school and that put her off singing.

Until! a couple of years ago when she heard about the Tuneless Choir, which conveniently rehearses very close to where she lives. She loves it! They have appeared in public at least twice, at community events, and she's even been on a choir weekend to York.

From the website -
The choir for people who love singing
but can’t always hit the right notes.
No auditions. No tuition. No pressure.
Just the joy of singing together

(it's a franchise, but that's OK as she enjoys it)

FairKoala · 04/08/2026 12:11

ZoeCM · 04/08/2026 12:05

She was 8, FFS! You shouldn't need to be Whitney Houston to get an entertainment badge in Brownies!

Show quote history

I would say that everyone can sing. They might sound like Whitney Houston or Johnny Vegas but it’s still singing. It’s having the confidence to stand up in front of everyone and sing

As Eric Morecambe would say. You sang all the right notes just not necessarily in the right order.

Delphiniumandlupins · 04/08/2026 12:10

LighttMode · 04/08/2026 11:56

I'm sorry @Magenta82 that was absolutely horrible of those 3 women.
Possibly they were taking the whole thing much too seriously.
But in a bigger picture, I think there is so much of this going on, with adults saying or doing shitty things to kids which stays with those kids for life.
When I was 8, I did ballet lessons and I had all the best ballet gear passed down to me second hand from my grandma's neighbour. I loved ballet, like lots of little girls do. Then one day at my grandma's house she was proudly telling her milkman (in those days, milkmen would deliver milk and stand and chat to people on the doorstep) about me doing ballet lessons, and he looked me up and down with a smirk and said "You're not ever going to be a ballet dancer, you haven't got the right build for it, look at that belly on you, a few less cream cakes I think hahahaha". It crushed me. I went on to believe I was fat and I dropped out of ballet lessons telling my mum I just didn't want to go anymore. I never did lessons to do it seriously or professionally, I only ever did it as an extra curricular Saturday morning class, but I truly loved it. Thing is, I've got a photo of me aged 8 in my ballet kit right before I stopped going, and honestly, I just look like a sweet little girl, perfectly slim, but yes I do have a little rounded belly in my leotard. Gosh I spent years after that thinking I must be fat and that led me to thinking I must look awful if grown adults could say that about me. I basically thought, in my young child's mind, that all adults must also have thought that when they looked at me. I know that sounds silly as an adult, but as an 8 year old it's how I thought.
I try so, so hard to be careful with the words I use to my own DC. I learnt how one sentence can crush a child. But I can't protect them from things other adults say, and when they (teenagers now) come home and tell me things teachers have said to them at school, or things teachers said to their peers in class, I just shudder in horror.
Anyhow OP, I think you should join a community choir and rediscover your love of singing 😘

Lovely last sentence, even though your own experience was horrible. Stupid milkman! Have you thought about looking for an adult ballet class to join?

ThatCyanCat · 04/08/2026 12:10

smallglassbottle · 04/08/2026 12:09

I got kicked out of Brownies 🙈😂

How?

smallglassbottle · 04/08/2026 12:09

I got kicked out of Brownies 🙈😂

NattyRedFinch · 04/08/2026 12:09

Take some comfort in the fact that those nasty old trouts are dead now and you’re not 🤣

Redintoothandclaw · 04/08/2026 12:08

ZoeCM · 04/08/2026 12:05

She was 8, FFS! You shouldn't need to be Whitney Houston to get an entertainment badge in Brownies!

Show quote history

8 is more than old enough to sing in tune. You shouldn't get a badge for singing if you don't sing the right notes.

WinnieWonderWilber · 04/08/2026 12:08

Oh OP you have brought back my own (F38) trauma of being the only one of my friends not given a part in Bugsy Malone by our music teacher at high school age 14. Not even offered a back stage role 😭 I tell myself it built character resilience but it still hurts 24 years later.

theodroa · 04/08/2026 12:07

Incident? Is this some click bait?

Redintoothandclaw · 04/08/2026 12:07

They should have let you know how bad you were before you took part in the show, but if you couldn't sing in tune, you didn't earn the badge.

FairKoala · 04/08/2026 12:05

You would have loved me at Brownies. I was singled out at every meet because I didn’t attend church on a Sunday with the rest of the pack (I am not Christian)

I then got told to never return because I swore.

I lasted 6 weeks

ZoeCM · 04/08/2026 12:05

Skippyasyermuni · 04/08/2026 10:26

But that’s the same as all the badges - you actually had to do the work to learn the skill, and be competent in it. You weren’t a singer, and sounds like you didn’t learn how to hit the notes, so… you don’t get the badge. The entertainer badge didn’t need to be singing; you should have learned a skill you could do competently.

I wouldn’t say it that way to an 8 year old obviously, but you’re in your 40s so it’s ok to say it bluntly. Loads of kids don’t achieve brownie badges because they didn’t learn the skill. There was a thread on here last year from a mum really angry that her daughter didn’t get the badge after failing to do the thing competently; she wanted it to be awarded for participating and she was told by almost every poster that she was being unreasonable because you don’t get the badge if you can’t do the skill.

Your parents or brownies leaders should have helped you with the badge by helping you find something you could do confidently and well, rather than let you try at singing when it wasn’t really a natural talent for you.

It is upsetting. But if it’s like any other badge, you need to be able to do it well to achieve the badge. Entertaining is a skill like any other; someone should have used it as a chance to help you learn something new.

Edited

She was 8, FFS! You shouldn't need to be Whitney Houston to get an entertainment badge in Brownies!

Delphiniumandlupins · 04/08/2026 12:05

I was in the Brownies some years before you and you have reminded me that I also failed a badge! It was a Baking Badge and I made (I think) Chocolate Crispies, which of course didn't need baking. I was a bit miffed because I had told Brown Owl and Tawny Owl what I was going to make and they never pointed out it wouldn't qualify. I came back the following week with Empire Biscuits and smashed it. If your badge was Entertainer not Singer then I think you earned it.

HypnoToads · 04/08/2026 12:02

That's so harsh. You tried to entertain and entertainment comes in many forms. Even the most horrendous karaoke rendition has entertainment value regardless of the actual quality of the singing.

When I was at school I auditioned for the choir. I am not exaggerating when I say that everyone who auditioned but me got in.

I was quite a resilient child and could've handled the rejection but the way they announced who was in and who wasn't was absolutely humiliating. The successful children had to go stand up at the front which meant that by the time all the names were read out, it was just me left sat on my own. Looking back as an adult I can't understand why the teachers didn't think of a kinder way of telling me I didn't get in.

Bakeittillyoumakeit · 04/08/2026 12:02

'Autumn days when the grass is jewelled and the silk inside a chestnut shell....'

That was one of my favourites - and oh my did we sing it a lot! Not that I can sing either OP, as i found out when I auditioned for the end of year show in front of my whole Junior 4 class......

Ah the good old 80's, when nobody was afraid of making it clear to a kid just how shit they were. Apparently we were all so much more resilient back then, but it's pretty hard to believe when we still thinking about it and still won't sing in front of people 40 years later.

GingerdeadMan · 04/08/2026 12:02

I heard the phrase " anything worth doing, is worth doing badly" and I try to remember this when I'm feeling nervous about having a go.

I too had my confidence trashed by school play auditions in the 80s :(

ChiliFiend · 04/08/2026 12:00

Goditsmemargaret · 04/08/2026 10:31

Omg OP I don't think I have read something here that has resonated with me so deeply.

Solidarity!

At a similar age I had a very nasty teacher ridicule me and actually ban me from singing. She told me I had to mime. Then all the class would turn and watch me to make sure I wasn't singing out loud even during prayers.

I told my mother and instead of saying that's ridiculous she looked horrified and agreed that I clearly couldn't and shouldn't sing.

For over thirty, yes thirty years I didn't sing out loud and spent many an evening stressing and trying to figure out how to disappear at exactly the time a birthday cake would appear anywhere.

Then I had a baby and began singing to her. My DH teases my terrible singing relentlessly and I do the same back to him. What he doesn't realise is the great reflection on him, us and our family it is that I let him hear my singing voice. Now I sing out of tune and joyfully every chance I get.

Shame on them.

This made me so sad to read. I was also "failed" at a choir tryout with the same consequences re birthday singing etc., but at least mine was done relatively kindly. Singing is such a cathartic and emotional outlet and I really feel the loss when my husband's and daughters sing so beautifully around the house (but I'm so glad they inherited his voice and not mine!) I do sing now but I would love to sound like them.

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