Furious at ds work dismissal

I think he told them he might be slightly late occasionally due to train timetables but ended up being late every day. No real reason for his tardiness either since earlier trains existed.

I’ve been looking for someone else who thinks this. Sometimes it’s hard for parents to admit their child is the problem and doesn’t help themselves. It’s probably more than being a few minutes late, I’d overlook that for a good member of staff.

And you failed to have read that the employer fired him for being late - so clearly not ok with it. Ironic calling other people dim for that

I think if he’s been there less than 3 months they can terminate with no real reason

Grown adults shouldn't need to be instructed to take a train that gets them to work on time by their employer. It's blindingly obvious that's what you should do.

It shows zero initiative, reliability, common sense or independent thought. The fact that he'd just be late every single day and think it acceptable?

Ridiculous. To the point I can barely believe this is real.

Just about to post this.

A new young starter. Maybe the first week whilst he’s finding his feet with train journeys then they’d let it slide but still reiterate that punctuality is important. After this, and before, they’ll be watching him like a hawk to ensure he’s in on time and noting when he’s late.

When you say “he informed them of” holiday, do you mean he got permission?

I wouldn’t mind an employee being five minutes late in a non customer facing role, as long as they don’t leave bang on time each day. Give and take. It would also depend on the frequency of the trains.

I know you said you weren’t returning to the thread OP but for future reference, this may help:

As a general rule, if it’s not documented in writing, it’s not a given and cannot be proved eg
a) permission to start later than the Contracted start time
b) the contracted start time

Allowing your son to minimise (eg he was 1-5 minutes late) is not going to be productive in the long term in any way in any part of his life, private or work

Every workplace has a different set of boundaries, guidelines and company
policies, so what you experience is not necessarily what someone else will

There are tens of thousands of people that needed his role. Let this be a lesson to you both.

He isn’t as dim as the many many PPs who seem to have failed to read that the employer was ok with him being a few minutes late.

YANBU OP, but there probably isn’t very much he can do bout it.

Why, I had the same setup and they had zero issues. It depends on type of work obviously, in my case I would be there 1h30m before anyone was in the building to get there earlier. And it was office work, I just spent the 5-10 minutes I was late at the end of the day finishing up if needed. Sometimes sat while eating instead. Calling that me actually being late is just stupid at that point, I was more reliable than some managers at that job in spite of being technically late every single day.

There is no reason it couldn't happen. But will be contextual for how likely they would be happy to allow it.

All I'm taking from this is that he should have got the earlier train from the start! Hard luck.

@OneGreyBiscuit "He told me that they were ok with him being a few minutes late as they were fully aware he gets the train, if they had a problem, they should've told him the first week and not say it was ok."

This could've been just what your son was telling you. Or maybe his employer didn't realise he meant every single day - forever. You say that "minor" lateness isn't an issue where you work, but that's totally irrelevant. Every employer is different and most employers are inclined to be more forgiving to long standing employees with difficult personal circumstances. Not 19 year olds that have just started. Your son should've had the initiative to get an earlier train and set a good example as a new employee. There's no justifiable argument around that. He's learnt a valuable lesson.

You think an employer expecting an employee to arrive on time is evidence of a poor work culture ? Do you not think that your own employer tolerating persistent lateness is perhaps more indicative of a poor working culture. If you have a standing arrangement whereby you make up the time then fine, but there’s no evidence that this was the case for DS. An employee being consistently late with no consequences makes for a toxic workplace, not least because of resentment from other employees who are on time.

He's been there a month and is consistently late. ACAS will not be interested

Well if that's an example of the family attitude, no wonder they got shot. Come on op. Your boys been stupid. He thought he could get away with being late. There's no way anyone agreed it could be every day, else they wouldn't have booted his arse into touch so soon...it costs a fair bit to recruit someone in advertising, time interviewing. He's pissed on his own chips I'm afraid....he knew it was 40 minutes from home when he applied and, what a surprise, they's actually a train he could get his arse on and arrive on time....

Please op smell the coffee. He's a grown man...I've had mates fighting wars at that age

It’s horrible and badly handled, but unfortunately they can dismiss someone very easily during probation. They don’t need a process or warnings.

In fairness, just because he told them he would be a few minutes late doesn't mean its acceptable. It would have made more sense to get the earlier train for his probationary period and then once he has proved his worth, then ask in writing for some flexibility. As a manager that is what I would expect to see from someone truly interested in the job and if this caused issues with other colleagues or there were other issues with him, it would probably have sealed the deal for me but they didn't handle it well.

The way they did it, telling him only today to get an earlier train and then sacking him anyway - is unfair, but not unlawful.

He should still get paid for all hours worked and any holiday he’s accrued. Beyond that, there’s not much he can challenge

Why did he need telling to get an earlier train?

Did he get in writing that they didn’t mind him being a bit late every day?

I cannot stand lateness or the excuse of living far away from the workplace (that’s a standard journey here, I couldn’t be late every day).

Added to which, after the email telling him to get an earlier train, he did just that and proved it was possible for him to get in on time, and thus entirely reasonable for the employer to expect him to be punctual. Which highlighted that he’d been taking the piss, and resulted in him being sacked. Simples.

My 20yo has a summer job. The train that he wanted to take gets in with just enough time for him to get to the workplace for 9am, if it’s on time. We decided on day 1 that you absolutely do not risk being late. Every day last month, he got up earlier than he wanted to take the train that leaves 40 mins earlier and most days, he has been 45 mins early to the job. I’m not sure why you/your ds did not think the same way. If the train is unreliable or too close to the start time, you take the earlier one and don’t risk pissing off a new employer. Why did he have to be told to take an earlier train? Is it not obvious?

At my previous employer, this wouldn’t have been an issue at all. Unless you started a few minutes late AND left on time/early.

at my current employer lateness isn’t tolerated at all, except in extreme circumstances.

in any case, arriving early, being keen and showing willing is always the best way to make a good impression in a new job.

Unfortunately, there is probably nothing that can be done now. However, I can only imagine that you have not been told the full story about them being ok with him being late every day. My work are ok with me being a bit late sometimes due to traffic - but I've been there 26 years and work flexi so make the time up. If he is in some sort of role that means the person he is taking over from can't leave until he starts I can see them getting annoyed about it.
But if there was an earlier train why on earth did he not just get that!
I hope he takes this as a learning experience and does well in his future.

Exactly, it depends on the job. And there are many jobs that are very strict indeed about employees clocking in on time at the start of a shift and not clocking out early at the end of a shift.

Where my DH works, if anybody is persistently late in clocking in then that starts a formal performance management process.

Sounds like a poor working culture. I commute and I have been a few.minutes late literally every day for 2 years. If he worked for me, I wouldn't have even noticed. Unfortunately, under employment law he has no recourse during probation (unless for discrimination). Hope he finds a better job.

I am baffled by the lack of common sense not to get the earlier train. Getting a train that already gets in a few minutes after he is supposed to start leaves zero room for delays.

If you are given a start time, you need to be there for it