AIBU to think population growth is unsustainable with climate change?

@Firefly1987look at birth rates!!!

I am relieved every day to have not had children. The next few decades are not going to be pretty.

@fishbowlee except for the two posters from the past couple days with 7 kids each! I also see loads of posters on here with 4 kids.

@BadSkiingMumpeople aren’t having loads of dc though.

We have more over 65 yr olds than under 20 yr olds. How does a country sustain that economically?

If you want to reduce the population in Europe you need to cull the elderly, is that what you are suggesting?

Did HRH Prince Philip have a point, when he said in 1988 that if he were reincarnated he would like to return as a deadly virus, to reduce the population? When the virus did hit, the global reaction was “keep people alive at all costs”.

I don't think she has said that at all, but it is likely true. Mass migration is already linked to climate change and that will likely get worse.

But I think what op has clarified that she is saying is that we already have enough to deal with with climate change and that means we shouldn't welcome immigration on top of having to deal with the challenges climate change will bring. Correct me if that is not right obviously.

I worry about how climate change will affect harvests, in the UK and globally, and our ability to produce our food. We already import so much but a dry summer like this year will affect the food that we can usually grow here. I'm not sure if there will be 19p Christmas veg in the supermarkets this year!

I think you are suggesting that climate change is about to cause widespread human displacement due to bits of land being uninhabitable and huge food shortages worldwide leading to famine, so we should sort of be in a war footing to stop that mass displacement heading our way?

This is a damn good point.

People generally aren't willing to make meaningful personal sacrficies for the sake of combating climate change.

If we suddenly halted immigration, that means a higher tax burden per person and likely cuts to public services.

Governments don't persist with high levels of immigration because they mistakenly believe it super-popular.

But we also don't have enough domestically-born working age people to sustain our current model for society.

Fundamentally, we need to reimagine how our society can function with an aging and declining population - until we are ready to bite that bullet, we need immigration.

Actually, farming uses (69%) and built-up or towns, cities etc (8% to 12%, depending on whether gardens are included.

I went to Bluewater on a Saturday once, albeit reluctantly. It was like a vision of hell. Cars as far as the eye can see.

It was one of the moments when I really began to get that we can’t go on like this as a society. That and a parking post where a Mumsnetter explained that her family had five cars, one each for her and her DH, one for each of her three children…

I am generally in favour of small families because, being one of three myself, I think that three or more children put a lot of strain on parents, particularly mothers. I also believe that old certainties of children growing up and becoming self sufficient are disappearing and you should only have the number of children that you could realistically house and support into adulthood.

OK, sorry, I am struggling to fully understand what point you are making regarding immigration and climate change.

Or is climate change not really what you want to discuss? Genuinely asking as i do not understand what argument you are making

I wouldnt worry about people with more than 2 children while the average is heading towards 1.

From 2084 globally. In China and some other countries already falling. In the UK recent figures showed a slowing in growth, but still growth.

We're not far off a situation where something like 250000 more people die than are born in the UK so a falling population is easily achievable in the medium term.

Ah, you’re a Malthusian!

He believedthat human population grows geometrically while food supply grows arithmetically, leading to inevitable crises unless controlled by natural or human check.

Or, you could think about The Boserupian theory, which states that population growth drives agricultural innovation and intensification rather than being limited by food supply.

Well my sister had one child, so donated an extra to my friend who already had 2 and my cousin had none so somone else can have his two.

Tell that to the countries and cultures who have a lot of children.
Birth rates have dropped dramatically all over Europe. I don’t think it is a good thing, families are getting smaller, at the end that’s all that matters to most of us.
If it wasn’t for immigration over the last 40 years, there would be very few children.
The relentless wars and bombing campaigns and the anger will destroy the earth before children will.

No we can’t because while the birth rate is declining the number of households continues to increase due to immigration, increased longevity, and an increase in single adult households.

I do look at people who have more than two kids (unless the last pregnancy was a multiple birth) negatively. We do not have the resources for so many people, and perhaps were the resources managed better, I'd be less disapproving, but there are not enough affordable housing options for too many people, wait lists for doctors/hospital appointments can be deadly.
Children are a pleasure, but once you have provided the first with a sibling, nobody needs more than that, imo.