AIBU to think public racist / anti immigrant / anti trans posts can justify dismissal?

So we have LA, a social worker, admitting her prejudices could have influenced her actions. And yet it’s ok for social workers to believe Muslims are dangerous and openly describe themselves as a ‘TERF’ and you think that’s, what, more professional?

NOBODY should be bringing their prejudices to work if they are in a state sponsored role with power over people. They should work on facts, and evidence and if they are unable to do that, they should stand aside. Clearly this is a hard ask, and current conditions mean unsuitable people remain in post and are overworked and under supervised/supported. But surely you want open minds in the profession, not Lisa Arthurworreys and not self declared Islamophobes?

I was very torn voting on this. I am left wing, a woman, an immigrant. I am very liberal. I have what others would perceive as an “alternative” lifestyle. I’m saying all this to almost prove to strangers on the internet that I don’t have hateful views of others. Im tolerant and I understand about punching up and not down. All of those things. I hate the PC gone mad rhetoric. However I’ve recently found myself not speaking out of fear. It’d be an informal conversation on politics between friends and I’d just nod silently. It’s just not worth the stress and fear. An example would be, looking at today’s news about Ceuta, me saying that it’s quite a scary situation that needs strategic thinking from the EU on how to police borders safely. I would be too fearful to say this and I don’t think that’s okay, and I don’t think it’s a hateful opinion. But I feel that’s where we are.

On the other hand, we have a part of the population who actively hates foreigners, regardless of their contribution to society, we have Reform spouting hate left and right, so it’s such a weird time to be alive really.

As an immigrant, I no longer feel safe in the UK. And simultaneously I fear I could lose friends or my job if I said oh it’s scary what’s happening in Ceuta.

Strange times.

ETA the insane level of fear I have about not expressing any opinion around gender identity/biological sex is so huge that I didn’t even dare mention it as an example in my post above, out of fear that if I implied that I believe in biological sex (such as bizarre sentence) I could lose my livelihood. It’s just bonkers.

I don’t doubt that some people hold that belief, though I think many more are using it as a cover. What is saying is that we must not allow that belief to be used to shirk responsibility. For some reason people are very willing to accept that police held that view, I just wonder why? People are afraid to believe the worst of the police, because that leaves us in a scary position. Better to imagine them as fearful rather than complicit.

I agree things are more complex, and thus it’s also more complex than ‘a genuine fear of being called racist’. It’s really about an inability to see past someone’s skin colour or religion and view the behaviour on its own merits. Nothing in this thread has provided anything to challenge that.

Re Nottingham, that’s a massive oversimplification and I don’t see any parallel. It’s factually correct that black men are discriminated against in mental health services. Also correct that black men are disproportionately represented as carers. Way more complex than the police failing to arrest men for sexually abusing children.

I was very torn voting on this. I am left wing, a woman, an immigrant. I am very liberal. I have what others would perceive as an “alternative” lifestyle. I’m saying all this to almost prove to strangers on the internet that I don’t have hateful views of others. Im tolerant and I understand about punching up and not down. All of those things. I hate the PC gone mad rhetoric. However I’ve recently found myself not speaking out of fear. It’d be an informal conversation on politics between friends and I’d just nod silently. It’s just not worth the stress and fear. An example would be, looking at today’s news about Ceuta, me saying that it’s quite a scary situation that needs strategic thinking from the EU on how to police borders safely. I would be too fearful to say this and I don’t think that’s okay, and I don’t think it’s a hateful opinion. But I feel that’s where we are.

On the other hand, we have a part of the population who actively hates foreigners, regardless of their contribution to society, we have Reform spouting hate left and right, so it’s such a weird time to be alive really.

As an immigrant, I no longer feel safe in the UK. And simultaneously I fear I could lose friends or my job if I said oh it’s scary what’s happening in Ceuta.

Strange times.

ETA the insane level of fear I have about not expressing any opinion around gender identity/biological sex is so huge that I didn’t even dare mention it as an example in my post above, out of fear that if I implied that I believe in biological sex (such as bizarre sentence) I could lose my livelihood. It’s just bonkers.

I didn’t express that view, so don’t put words into my mouth. If prejudice was affecting a social worker’s work with certain groups of people, that’s one issue, and should be dealt with. If fear of being racist or perceived or called racist is affecting their job that should be tackled and if the whole culture is enabling that, that should also obviously be tackled. No?

So we have LA, a social worker, admitting her prejudices could have influenced her actions. And yet it’s ok for social workers to believe Muslims are dangerous and openly describe themselves as a ‘TERF’ and you think that’s, what, more professional?

NOBODY should be bringing their prejudices to work if they are in a state sponsored role with power over people. They should work on facts, and evidence and if they are unable to do that, they should stand aside. Clearly this is a hard ask, and current conditions mean unsuitable people remain in post and are overworked and under supervised/supported. But surely you want open minds in the profession, not Lisa Arthurworreys and not self declared Islamophobes?

I don’t think I was calling your words bollocks, but the claims of those who used that excuse are, in my view, self-serving bollocks. Sorry if that was unclear. Similarly, you seem determined not to see the difference between ‘this review found some people used this excuse’ and that being accepted by the reviewers as legitimate.

I don’t think snide comments about ‘that poster’ really smack of good faith engagement, so I’ll leave it there.

So we have LA, a social worker, admitting her prejudices could have influenced her actions. And yet it’s ok for social workers to believe Muslims are dangerous and openly describe themselves as a ‘TERF’ and you think that’s, what, more professional?

NOBODY should be bringing their prejudices to work if they are in a state sponsored role with power over people. They should work on facts, and evidence and if they are unable to do that, they should stand aside. Clearly this is a hard ask, and current conditions mean unsuitable people remain in post and are overworked and under supervised/supported. But surely you want open minds in the profession, not Lisa Arthurworreys and not self declared Islamophobes?

I am engaging in good faith. You called what I said “bollocks” and then banged on about the police when I wasn’t talking about them, and you’ve just admitted that fear of racism was an issue in the LA as documented in the Casey report, if not a “primary” one. So don’t lecture me on good faith.

Victoria Climbie

“In his opening speech on 26 September 2001, Garnham said that race may have played a part in the case, due to the fact that a black child was murdered by her black carers, and the social worker and police officer most closely involved in the case were black. He said that the fear of being accused of racism may have led to the inaction.[120][121] In the hearings, Arthurworrey, who is African-Caribbean, admitted that her assumptions about African–Caribbean families influenced her judgement, and that she had assumed Climbié's timidity in the presence of Kouao and Manning stemmed not from fear, but from the African–Caribbean culture of respect towards one's parents.[122]“

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Victoria_Climbié

Of course, people with different experiences/knowledge/conclusions than you are stupid and only think differently because it’s politically correct.

Not much point engaging if you’re not doing so in good faith.

I think this poster is the latter, there are lots of people who will confidently come out with this stuff because it’s the right thinking position.

true.

can you give me an example of anti trans though.

I’m afraid you need to read the 2015 Casey report into Rotherham Council. You are poorly informed if you think what I was referring to wasn’t an issue.

Ok I will give some real life examples. And these are very common. Any SW working in childrens will attest to this. You have a non-white muslim family you are assessing and you can see clear signs that the girls are being treated differently to the boys - less freedoms, doing housework, not allowed to play as much, signs of physical punishment (regular smacking no bruises, and threats of it - mental abuse such as the boogie man (there can be a lot of that), regular verbal chastisement, no body autonomy, no choice over clothing, lack of toys. Just obvious the girls are more subdued, more compliant, more fearful than the boys and often are looking after the boys - even when they are younger than them.

We would talk to the family about how these things aren't acceptable here but you are also expected to balance that with 'respecting the culture'. The same in a white working class family and we'd be far more on it I think. I think its reverse racism. Children are children and deserve protection.

In more extreme cases, we, teachers, doctors can sometimes get a whiff an FGM might be about to happen - the signs are young girl becomes subdued and there are talks of a imminent holiday alone with a female relative overseas. To step in and stop that without being called racist is incredibly hard.

What did happen to the msps and their support of this violence? Did they pull a “whoopsie gosh we didn’t know” or
double down?

I'm afraid you're talking bollocks.

Complex issues aren't ever attributable to one thing.

Was there a negative attitude to victims of grooming gangs? Yes

Was there also a fear among professionals of being accused of racism? Yes

Was there also a fear that being honest about grooming gangs causing social unrest and overtime racism in the community? Yes.

When Ellie Williams was lying about being a victim of Asian grooming gangs there were public protests and Asian businesses attacked.

And it comes up again and again, in the Southport enquiry we had a teacher saying she was so concerned about his attitude and lack of remorse after violent/weapons incidents in school she was pressing the issue then another professional said 'do you really want to profile him as a black young man with a knife and felt she was being accused of racism and shut down.

With the Nottingham inquiry, staff spoke about the culture of fear of sectioning a violent black man. In reference to the 'big, black and dangerous' report accusing MH services of institutional racism.

Anyone who pretends no-one in the public sector fears accusations of racism is a bad actor or just do not know what they're talking about.

I'm afraid you're talking bollocks.

Complex issues aren't ever attributable to one thing.

Was there a negative attitude to victims of grooming gangs? Yes

Was there also a fear among professionals of being accused of racism? Yes

Was there also a fear that being honest about grooming gangs causing social unrest and overtime racism in the community? Yes.

When Ellie Williams was lying about being a victim of Asian grooming gangs there were public protests and Asian businesses attacked.

And it comes up again and again, in the Southport enquiry we had a teacher saying she was so concerned about his attitude and lack of remorse after violent/weapons incidents in school she was pressing the issue then another professional said 'do you really want to profile him as a black young man with a knife and felt she was being accused of racism and shut down.

With the Nottingham inquiry, staff spoke about the culture of fear of sectioning a violent black man. In reference to the 'big, black and dangerous' report accusing MH services of institutional racism.

Anyone who pretends no-one in the public sector fears accusations of racism is a bad actor or just do not know what they're talking about.

I’m afraid you need to read the 2015 Casey report into Rotherham Council. You are poorly informed if you think what I was referring to wasn’t an issue.

I’m afraid I think that’s bollocks. There was a culture of thinking girls who were out at night, drinking and using drugs and hanging around with older men were worthless. Police themselves sexually abused girls. Then it all came out and the cops used whatever excuse their could ‘ooh, we were scared of being called racist’. Why weren’t they scared of being called racist when they watched an innocent black men die on the floor at Hull police station? Or when they fitted up a group of black men in Cardiff for a murder? Weird isn’t it, that they’re only scared when it suits them.