To not pay their air fare

This is nonsense. You were either wrongly advised, or misunderstood the advice you were given.

All of this is true about making gifts out of surplus income and my parents used to do the same. However once my father died and my mother moved into a care home, the care home fees were more than her solo income so there was no surplus income left from which to make gifts.

OPs parents are in a care home and the expense is highly likely to be more than their income. So the continued support of the grandson will now be coming out of their capital. Each of them can make a gift of £3k to whoever they like each year. and they can also give £3k each for the previous tax year if unused. So post their care home admission, (assuming they haven’t made gifts to anyone else) £12k in the first year can be gifted to the grandson and £6k pa after that. If he receives anything more than this then it needs to be included in IHT calculations post their death.

if they are giving the grandson the £3k each then the gift of airfare money to the DN should also be included in the IHT calculations when being prepared. She can be gifted £250 in any year as can her DH so it’s not really a big deal to giver £1k but strictly speaking it’s a gift out of capital.

I get that. We were lucky that Dad wanted to keep up with technology so he had an iPad. He struggled a little at the end of his life (94yrs). When he passed away mum was happy to take over. She can answer but not make calls. WhatsApp has saved a fortune in phone calls.

In our case where we failed was in getting them to use basic mobiles! They would never put them on. This meant that they never got used to booking taxis. They needed help with appointments. I had to take a three hour flight to get Mum to the chiropodist!

In your case I would do a practice call with a family member who knows that it is a test call. Your parents might understand the call. Mum is recently spending time talking about things that happened during WW2. She still seems to enjoy the calls.

Funding care is hard isn’t it. POA is a responsibility.

Yes but her dad is 92. He's extremely unlikely to live another 8 years, in which case on his death more money can be diverted to her mother's care. They may also already have, or could request, a deferred payment agreement where the fees are paid back after her parents have died when the house can be sold. It's not that difficult to avoid the need to sell up in a hurry if it can be seen that funds will be there but aren't liquid right now. I've been through this myself.

The Office of the Public Guardian is there to make checks if anyone thinks that an attorney is misusing their LPA. You don't have to run all your decisions past them. The point of being an attorney is that you're empowered to make those decisions in the same way as if it was the family member themselves.

The Public Guardian has no involvement. That’s the point of appointing a trusted attorney to handle your affairs in the event of incapacity.

I’m not obsessed with the LA. I was under the impression that the OPs parents only has 8 years of fees then no other assets, which would be further reduced by paying these travel costs each year. In that situation there would have been a real possibility they may have had to apply to the LA for funding, which is where the problems might start. As it seems there is possibly hundreds of thousands of pounds on top of this available from a property sale, it is correct that it is unlikely the LA will need to be brought in.

Of course, there are the OP’s responsibilities as Attorney to consider. I don’t know what the attitude of the Public Guardian will be to OP spending her parents money in this way. I would consult them before committing to anything.

Sorry, it isn’t your money and your DF (who has put you in a position of trust) would be happy to see them and benefit. For now, you should pay the money as he would.

They are renting the house out and I would have imagined they have factored in the rent from this property in their calculations.

Presumably because they’ve got more than enough for the moment so they don’t need to sell immediately.

Don’t know why you’re so obsessed with the LA, they’re highly unlikely to be involved with this couple at all.

Because it’s my job

OK fair enough didn’t see that. I therefore cannot fathom why OP is not factoring in the house value in the amount available for care home fees. The LA will certainly expect that to be sold and the proceeds used up until they reach the lower savings limit, if the rent received is not covering the fees. They won’t contribute a penny until that is done, even before they get into scrutinising expenditure.

"DH thinks we should give them nothing but is happy for us to benefit, but he also has done so much for them including getting their house ready to rent in super fast time to help with the care home fees."

I originally wrote “potentially” as we don’t know if there’s property as well.

Either way this is a ludicrous conversation.

The purpose of the UK's deprivation of assets rule is to stop people from intentionally getting rid of wealth to avoid care home fees.

As this couple has explicitly secured 8 years of self-funding capital, they clearly lack the intent to avoid paying. In any case their care needs are not an immediate prospect.

LA assess transactions using 2 primary factors:

Forseeabilty and timing: They’ve got funds to last 8 years. As they don’t need state support now sor soon the timing indicates they’re not trying to cheat the system.

Reasonable motivation - 1k to maintain family bonds and well-being is a normal life expense, not an artificial attempt to ditch capital.

Ultimately, councils expect individuals to live their lives & spend money reasonably. A flight for family to visit a couple who are funding their own care would be considered entirely reasonable.

yes I would like to inherit the house so I can pass it or the funds on to DS. That’s what DPs would have wanted as well.

Can you point out where the OP says there is a property to sell as well? I must have missed that. So why the stress over only having eight years of fees in savings?

Oh, and the council definitely do care about cash being spent in this way and they will definitely pursue any avenue to avoid contributing to fees.

Ok ..so two of her DC were owed money from dm
When I became POA , solicitors contacted me lots about finances and selling the house ,so we had lots of conversations..and I was 100% told I can not give them the money out of her estate..they have to wait untill she has died and probate sorted out ..
She specifically said that as POA I cannot go handing out her money..or words to that effect..can't remember exact wording,but that was the jist of it .
And council took a lot of interest in asking where everything went
So to move in to her rest home I had to do a transfer of £6000 for the first month,and the council even went back 5 years to check where that £6000 went , because it looked different from the monthly standing order to the home .
So that's all I know
But feel free to explain how you know differently

It’s not any kind of gamble. Either they will live longer or they wont. It’s highly unlikely but not impossible. But there will be a house to sell once the savings have run out. And a council is not going to make an argument that personal funds cannot be spent on bringing a relative over to see them. They’re just not. And even if they were 1k is less than a week’s rent for a care home.

This whole subject is ridiculous.

Yes but she’s also trying to make sure that they have enough money to pay for their care and if she pays for their airfare all the time that will be a waste of money that could be used for more important things, and if the money runs out and council have to step in to pay for their care are going to wonder why money was wasted paying for someone else’s airfare when it should have gone towards their care. Op has decided to offer them £1200 towards their flights which is a fair offer.

There’s no hierarchy for misappropriation of funds. It’s wrong whoever the recipient is.

There’s a load of crap on this thread. FFS

You sound very fair OP.
People arguing about your dad’s money for you son.. that’s his grandson, his direct descendant. Totally different to a niece and husband

As you have POA it would be a hard no from me.

@rookiemere I agree that although FaceTime is great it can be hard in a care home. DM (even in her 90s) was used to us using WhatsApp on video when in her own home. It was the way she could keep in touch with her grandchildren and great grandchildren. She lives in UK, we don’t. We have introduced carer facilitation of the phone (the older generation press too hard in my experience). In the care home we have not worked out how they can keep the phone charged. Sounds easy but it isn’t.

If she had never used the phone in her 80s I think it would be harder now. Maybe you could try it out within the family. Your DS could try calling while you are there. If it works, suggest to your cousin that she calls. Give her a couple of dates that could work for you within time frames that potentially could work in her time zone. Then invite her to FaceTime. If it were my uncle I would work round it