To think Andy Burnham is doing a decent job so far?

I know it is still early days, but nothing wrong with having a little hope:

The thing I find mystifying is the insistence that more money must be found. There’s an argument that there’s already enough money in the system and it’s being used ineffectively. It doesn’t suit the right wing narrative though.

And I completely agree about The Telegraph @Visiblyabove25. It’s based on speculation specifically designed to keep its readership in a perpetual lather of indignation.

Very hard to take anything the Telegraph say on economics seriously, though, isn’t it?! After all, they breathlessly praised the Kwasi Kwarteng budget that triggered massive financial turmoil and added hundreds of pounds to ordinary people’s mortgages every month - it’s all very well harping on about the imagined pain of hypothetical tax raises, while many of us are still feeling the very real financial pain of that disaster. They should have a bit of humility.

I think one of Andy Burnham’s most successful bits of rhetoric has been telling the media to stop second guessing and scare mongering and allow a grown up political conversation to take place. And I think sections of the media would do well to take that advice if they don’t want to keep drifting ever further from public opinion.

To your point, there is a great calculator in the link below.

By all means drive high earners away…

www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/income/can-britain-afford-lose-you-how-many-workers-replace-tax/

Fair question, and what’s also interesting is that I did like Kier Starmer and thought he was doing an ok job !

What AB has done that I am liking :

Bus fare cap , we need to invest in public transport and in order to do that we need people to be using it.

Change in schools focus plan , the ‘get everyone to uni’ system does not work anymore and done properly this could completely overhaul our curriculum and make education accessible and useful for all children

Social care review, currently social care is not fit for purpose and is run by profiteering companies.

Investment in nuclear deterrent (double points here as it’s in an area which has always been neglected and overlooked and will really benefit from this)

Yes I know it’s talk and reviews etc but he is at least saying the right things , which is a start. If he can implement what he is saying I think Labour will win back its heartland voters .

I don’t think people should have tribal like allegiance to parties because I don’t think it’s good for politics, and I have in the past voted for Lib Dem’s, Labour and yes even Conservatives because they were broadly offering policies at that time i agreed with.

i agree something should be done about adult social care but the billion pound (plus) question is where is the money going to come from?
Just as more needs to be spent on defence or education or the court / judicial system. We can all come up with suggestions on where the Government should spend more money. The tricky part is where does the money come from- other than "let's tax the rich more" - with "rich" being defined as anybody earning more money than me but most definitely not me.

You must be new then - as she was v active on your favourite thread.

Yes. I worked the user name out, but I don't know who Pandora is.

He hasn't actually done anything yet, not that it would be reasonable to expect him to. So all we can judge is whether he is saying the right sort of things, and braadly he is. Though, he hasn't yet given anyone a coherent plan, just a series of uncosted aspirations, clearly pitched to sound good. Starmer also started off saying the right things...he just didn't, or couldn't, or didn't have enough time to, actually deliver.

My biggest fear for the UK is that it takes another year to actually come up with and articulate a coherent plan, which will inevtiably mean some tough choices, and that will then have no chance of being delivered before the next election.

As I read, and might have mistranslated, here in Italy when he because PM, "Man who ran busses in provincial city is now UK PM and has a tough job ahead"

We’ve been over this Pandora, sooooo many times.

My user name informs my view.

Wrong, I’m afraid.

One would prefer volatility so that they could trade it.

From your posts you appear to have a non-finance background. No assumption, merely deductive reasoning.

Good point.

dilligafy has been here before I suspect 😉

It’s a fair assumption that someone with a stake in the country would want stability. Unless of course they’re shorting and making money from chaos.

I still have investments and financial exposure to the UK, so it really will.

Best not to make assumptions I find.

I thought you might not. You wish to see instability and uncertainty in the UK but it won't affect you personally. That is not a very pleasant stance.

There’s no shame in it.

No I don’t - I’m allowed max 90 days per year as a non-resident, which I mainly use during the summer.

And what a summer!

So you wish for more instability and uncertainty? That is a shame. Do you live in the UK?

We shall.

My only hope is we don’t have to wait for the same two years per Starmer. I’m not sure the electorate nor the economy could withstand that.

Eh, who has said that? Not me. Right now it is looking as though Reform will get rid of itself, at least as a potential government, with no outside help needed.

I am sorry if the thought upsets you.

Sadly, I think you’re right - and I remember there was a lot of clamouring from across the political spectrum - and especially the care sector - at the time for her to do just that. Sadly, it didn’t succeed - I think at the time her position in her own party was too weak for her to pull it off, and she was too close to a snap election.

Andy Burnham himself tried for cross party talks on this way back when he was health secretary, but has spoken about it being a mistake to attempt it so close to an election.

The big hope for anyone who actually wants to see meaningful change happen on social care is that Andy Burnham has hopefully learnt from his own - and Theresa May’s - mistakes by making this a personal mission while he does still have a lot of political good will behind him. Let’s hope he can pull it off!

You are exactly the kind of person who interests me regarding Burnham.

What do you see in him & his government that wasn't there with Starmer - other than more pizazz and knowledge of how to play the media?

Genuine question, not being goady.

There is a big difference between a party flying high and then disappearing to locking the leaders up and making the party illegal.
I took the comment about this being the end of Reform to mean the party will drop in the polls and maintain a few MPs but will no longer be a realistic government. I certainly didn’t think @TemperanceWestwas implying we round the leaders up and imprison them. I think we need to stop making silly judgments and use our skills of inference.

Get rid of a legitimate political party. Sounds like fascism. Surely not.

But again, saying hard workers and high achievers are about to be hit again is purely hypothetical. Refusing to rule out more tax hikes doesn’t mean he is actually going to raise taxes - and to rule out tax raises outside of a budget just because the media keep asking, is IMO playground politics. There are things that will need to be paid for, and whoever is in government will need to pay for them.

Genuinely, the majority of criticisms I’ve seen on Andy Burnham on this thread are about things he MIGHT do rather than on anything he has said or done, which in itself is telling.

We shall see, but the end of Reform would be a positive for everyone IMO, Tories included.