To think Andy Burnham is doing a decent job so far?

You just need to read back on this thread to see. Plenty of evidence of rattling 😊

Alas, one man with a warm bedside manner, does not good government make.

I’m not sure who you refer to when you suggest he has ‘rattled detractors’, incidentally.

You’re right. I apologise, I misinterpreted you.

I know. What I meant was that if someone has the skills to be a good politician, then there's nothing wrong with them going into politics. Just because they've been a plumber or something for a few years before becoming a politician doesn't automatically make them better than someone who wants to be a politician.

I don't think so. They often say it to mean someone who has only had a job in politics, but a job in politics could be lots of things- working for the civil service, being an admin assistant or assistant to a politician, an MP etc. Boris Johnson was never called a 'career politician' because he had a job before he was a politician as a journalist. He was, however, an opportunist

I don’t see why. Some people are born with the ability and talent, others aren’t.

Which could be described as something of an oxymoron ...

I didn’t say “career politician” I said “natural politician”. 🤷‍♀️

I think people say "career politician" to mean the type of politician who puts their own career advancement above what is in the interests of their constituents/party/country.

Boris Johnson is the perfect example - changing his stance on Brexit to Leave in an attempt to advance his own career.

Yes people always say 'career politician' as if its disparaging, but being a politician is a career, and one where you need some exceptional diplomatic and negotiating skills, and a bucketful of charm. Some people are exceedingly good at it.Some people use their talents for ill, but some (hopefully Burnham is one) use them for good. If you don't have that, it doesnt matter how good your intentions are, you cannot get anything done. That was borne out by Starmer and probably May, especially on Social care reform.

To me he’s hit the ground running. I like that he’s got T and LD around the table. It’s how it should be. Everyone will have valid ideas. He’s using some tried and tested findings from Manchester where apprenticeship schemes have worked with 14-16 year olds too so to build that into education more widely is encouraging.

The social care presser was a master class in communication. The audience ranged round in a semi circle, no podium, no notes, took questions. Warm, sincere, heartfelt. This is a natural politician at the top of his game, no wonder he’s got his detractors thoroughly rattled.

That’s a good point - and I totally accept it. But that doesn’t mean mainstream politicians can avoid social media together - the genie is out of the bottle. The best they can do - I think - is use it in a way that doesn’t perpetually feed the algorithmic outrage. That’s what I think Andy Burnham is doing so well - his team aren’t churning out rage bait, they’re using barm cakes to explain devolution. And I do think it’s genius.

The media scrutiny point is interesting - I heard Laura Kuessenberg talking about how surprised she was at just how much access Andy Burnham gave her for their interview and I also heard a journalist (I think from the Huff Post) talking about a media huddle in the Downing Street garden and how unprecedented it was to be invited in like that.

But on the other hand, I do get the criticisms about not always taking media questions - and especially about not delaying summer recess so he could take questions in the house.

Personally, I think Andy Burnham was right not to answer questions after his first big speech - because if he had, the headlines would have been “Andy Burnham refuses to comment of X,Y,Z” rather than anything about the substance of his announcements. And I thought he handled the questions around social care exceptionally well.

I suppose overall think there’s a fine line between avoiding scrutiny and not being drawn into manufactured outrage from a “gotcha” obsessed media culture. For now at least, I’m comfortable that he’s strategically controlling the narrative rather than dodging scrutiny - but you’re right, if he ever gets as tetchy and evasive as Farage in the face of media questioning, then I would start to worry.

I don't know anything about "going through the cringe", "vibes" and "platitudes" but this is a good assessment about the social media use of the PM:

Andy Burnham Went Online, and Got Into No 10 - BBC iPlayer

Op, I’m generally a fan of AB, at least as mayor.

i’m undecided on him as PM but although he has said some interesting things, he really hasn’t actually done anything yet. So we’ll have to see.

i think his weak spot is the foreign policy stuff. Which Starmer was good at.

While this is true, Nigel Farage isn’t able to get involved in angering like this while he is technically resigned and running for re-election. NF has never had anything interesting to say about social care and doesn’t even have a spokesperson on it I don’t think.

It’s a perfect medium for propaganda - no matter who is using it!

So are all other forms of social media. And TV. And radio. And the press. IMO one of the biggest drivers of Farage's success was the endless exposure he was given by all of the above over a considerable number of years.

This made me laugh. It is so desperate.

Visiblyabove25 the fact that Farage / Reform have effectively used social media to drive their success is an indication of how the medium can be used to convey lies, misinformation and bullshit! No-one is asking questions, scrutinising, challenging, requiring answers. It’s a perfect medium for propaganda - no matter who is using it!

@Visiblyabove25 is right. I despise TikTok but it is a way to reach potential voters, especially younger ones.

I also agree with @5128gap . The we hate Labour folk are never going to like Labour or anything they do. Burnham doesn't need them to, because he can win a GE without them. He needs to win back those who voted Labour in 2024.

Eta: I am still Burnham-sceptic. But I am feeling a bit of hope too.

I agree completely with this - being warm, empathetic and good humoured is not the same as being unserious. You only need to listen to one of Andy Burnham’s speeches on Hillsborough or read Head North to realise he’s a serious politician with serious ideas.

The number of TikTok videos produced obviously isn’t a measure success in itself, but I do think the fact that so many people (myself included) are feeling engaged and even a bit hopeful about politics for the first time in a long time, is.

But cutting through on social media is a really important skill for a modern politician.

The fact that Nigel Farage and his team have always been good at social media has massively driven their success. None of the main political parties have really had an adequate answer to it - until now.

I find it incredible to watch - in the same way history students learn how Stanley Baldwin was the first British politician to really master radio, and Howard MacMillan was the first to master TV, I genuinely think they’ll study how Andy Burnham mastered TikTok

And on a none-politics-nerd note, engaging people who previously felt disinterested and disengaged in politics and making them feel excited and inspired about the direction of their country is definitely a Prime Minister’s job - and he’s doing it well.

I think he is doing OK considering all the issues he has to address.

However I am disappointed again at Rayner for doing something as daft as thinking it is OK for the Truman Brewery in London to become a data centre...

Indeed. Can't please everyone. And the "I hate Labour" brigade are a lost cause anyway, so their opinion is somewhat moot.
Burnham needs to concentrate on the people who are open minded and will vote for him if they like whats he's doing, and crucially, get to hear about it.