AIBU to think SAHMs are lazy?

And yet that will all count for nothing, if what they model is 'being able to support yourself suddenly becomes optional after you've had a child'.

I don't really get the argument that working FT is good modelling for the children, particularly girls. My own background was where most mothers were at home full time but extremely ambitious for their daughters. I don't know anyone who simply mimicked their mothers life because we grew up in a different culture. The SAHMs I know are educated women who chose to give up work and stay home. Not people who went from father to husband as dependents.

The modelling, I think, is how you manage your house and family whether at home full time or not. SAHPs who clean up after their children and serve them until adulthood are poor models IMO. Likewise FT working parents who pay for cleaners who pick up after the children, as opposed to merely clean. Children need to do chores and contribute to the home and a parent who enforces this is a better model regardless of whether working or not. Same with the general attitude at home. Women who are sub servant to men or who tolerate men who treat them so, are not good role models, this can happen regardless of working status. Mothers who are assertive and independent are good role models regardless of working status.

I’m sure some are, and im sure some aren’t. The same in any job too.

its not a choice i could afford to make; i am the higher earner. But other people making that choice has no impact on my life.

@SerenaCat93 - you keep banging on about your 'stats' because you have no actual life experience of SAHMs but clearly some weird bee in your bonnet about them nevertheless. Why are you on this thread at all? Have you asked yourself this?

Also, your stats are crap and have no context. It's not about looking down on women on benefits. It's about the obvious fact that a woman who is a SAHM due to low earning potential is a very different demographic to a woman who is a high net worth family but a SAHM though choice. Does this even need explaining?

Equally, your 'stats' are nonsense because they do not account for how long a woman is 'not working' for. Again, a woman taking a year off for one child is a very different proposition to a woman who is a SAHM indefinitely - and then there is obviously anything and everything and inbetween. Loads of women with multiple children are 'not working' at some point. Lots of women take time out or change job / career. Very few women only have one child and return to work full time at the first possible opportunity and then that's it until they are 68. What do you even mean? You need to actually define who and what you're talking about before you ask Chat GPT for 'stats.'

Your argument is akin to me going on a thread about the MN so-called 'WOHMs' and claiming that because x% of women are low earners, high earners are to be dismissed because they are 'in a bubble.' It would be like someone arguing - "Well, I personally don't know any high earners or have any experience if this lifestyle therefore I hereby proclaim them irrelevant and 'in a bubble' and oh, by the way, here's a random Chat GPT stat about how many working women are in poverty." Just utter nonsense.

Yes, it tends to happen that certain career women simply cannot cope when they encounter a happy SAHM/housewife…still plenty of proud housewives around…deal with it! 😂

Yes, this question of ‘independence’ is an interesting, and debatable, one.

I can guarantee this Miss Independent poster would need to make changes herself if her husband left, all of my friends who work are still reliant on their husband’s salary. None pay for everything themselves, or could sustain their current lifestyles alone. Not quite so independent after all.

SAHMs are criticised for being dependent on their husbands financially, but plenty of parents are extremely dependent on own parents, ILs, nurseries, childminders, nannies, schools, etc.

I watch numerous ageing GPs who are really tired and struggling on the school run having swimming lessons, homework, all sorts dumped on them by their highly dependent adult daughters/DILs for the majority of the week. Women of 40 still having their dinner cooked and washing done for them by their mother/MIL! I would die of embarrassment treating my mother like that. That needs calling out way more than it currently is. They need to grow up!

SAHMs roll up their sleeves and get on with things themselves! When I was a teacher I had a team to delegate to, a cleaner, supply teachers, school cooks, all sorts of help. I’ve never felt less dependent on others!

It's baffling to me how much people care and need to make vile judgement about other people's life choices that don't affect them whatsoever.

Why would anyone want approval or disapproval about their private life? No one cares. Do working mums really need approval? Or asked for opinion because they decide to work 5 hours a week, or 3 days or 6 days? Do mums having roles including a lot of travel, or mum who are posted overseas for weeks or months care about approval or disapproval?

But if you attack someone, expect them to call you out.

It's baffling to me that anyone would consider their choices would be greeted with uniform approval.

Gosh this thread is awful. Women attacking women for their parenting choices.

How much food and clothes your child needs? 😂
If dad earns enough, who cares if mum is not paying the bills. If she needs to, she'll get a job.

You realise that often, it's mum's income that allowed them to buy the house they live in now and the family current lifestyle is based on the 2 income pre-children?

It's just nice to be able to spend years with kids and not have to go to work after 9 or 12 months. It's also great to have at least 1 parent available for every school holiday.

You like to work, no-one is stopping you. Others have worked, might go back to work, there's always a job somewhere if you really want one, but enjoy years with their kids that will never come back.

You can have a successful career even with a 10 or 15 years break.

You are funny. you can push the boundaries of human knowledge
You do have a very high opinion of yourself I give you that 😂

If you were that secure in your own choices, why do you care so much what other women do?

You seem to be unable to comprehend it's not all or nothing? SAHM can be just as educated and successful as you, probably more, financially better and then decide to have a break. And the beauty of not being a single mother? You share. You want your 50/50 split, others want to spend more time with their children.

I am amused that you think you are the superior example. This will be long forgotten in 20 or 25 years, which is a shame. It would be interesting to see what the children have achieved. Mine are much older than nursery, and looking at them, I am not worried let's put it that way 😁

Trying to convince yourself that not only SAHM are incapable of independence, but their children are penalised later in life by their example is brilliant.

Oh dear someone's upset.

If you honestly think you can push the boundaries of human knowledge in your kitchen, that's wonderful.

We're thriving just fine, as is our daughter, who is more likely to be an independent woman because she's seen equality and independence modelled at home. As much as you believe women going out and achieving in their right means they need approval and can't thrive at home, I will again point you to the research that their children are more successful for witnessing them do it. Sorry that riles you so.

No, you don't. You love them, you nurture them, you play with them and give them lots of lovely experiences i'm sure but you do not provide for them. You don't provide their clothes or shoes or the food they eat or the roof over their head, your husband does. That's why men have always been referred to as "providers" "bread winners" etc.

Mums are equally responsible for providing the things a child needs in my opinion.

Again, spectacularly missing the point. You'd think someone creating medicine would be able to think a bit deeper.
You can do BOTH you know. The SAH parent takes care of the house and life stuff. It doesn't mean they are at home because their life passion was the house chores.

It's good you both have your little part-time jobs and can alternate. Other people have jobs that need to be full-time. Other families also have more than one child who's only at nursery 😂

Why can't you comprehend that many other women are enjoying taking a break and concentrate on their kids and don't let their brain go to rot just because they don't get a pay check. Just because you claim to only be able to learn etc in a specific work environment doesn't mean everyone is the same. Other parent also enjoy to spend time with their kids and dont' need some work recognition.

It's your own inability to thrive that you are projecting. Not as great a role model for your daughter as you think then.

You misunderstand. I am not saying working parents are not present.

the poster I am quoting has consistently rubbished SAHPs on this thread - saying they’re “playing Dollie’s” rather than providing for their children.

that is why I commented as I did.

I have nothing but respect for parents who work out of the home and undertake all of the domestic labour too

I’m not sure that’s really providing to be honest, we are all present as parents. Even if we work. Or when they are at school, providing is so much more than simply being there,

I provide for my children by being present, can you really not understand that?

Lol, I don't need a boss. I need achievement. I have my name in scientific research papers. I've created medicine. I enjoyed my maternity leave but by 9 months I felt my brain withering. I need to learn, research, discover. I love my daughter, my world revolves around her, but she is not the only thing in it. It's good for her to see her mother going out and leaving her mark on the world just like her father. It's good that she gets equal time with both of us and it's not just me doing everything. She has three days a week with me, three with my husband and one at nursery which she loves and gets to play with other children which benefits her socially. Sue has a parent all day every day for six days of the week. It just doesn't need to be me all the time, because we're showing her what equality looks like.

ThankYouNigel has repeatedly said she does in fact do those things all day. She's said it again above. Making disparaging comments about needing a boss don't bother me, though I hope they make you feel better. I know my worth and it's more than being a kept woman who does all the child rearing so much husband doesn't have to while letting my own achievements drift off into the distance.

Oh dear who's being judgemental about other mums now? Teen mums on benefits with no qualifications are nowhere near the only SAHM group living in poverty. You clearly think yourself better than these women while having someone else pay your bills for you.

I don't think all time spent with children is playing dollies, I spend a lot of time educating my daughter. I didn't need to give up my career to do so because their father does his fair share too. Young children spend a lot of time playing. Giving up your career and staying with young children all day every day is most definitely deciding to stay at home playing rather than providing for your children. Thinking you need to intensively parent a child every minute of the day to the point where you need to give up work to do it is insane.

I see you still have no actual data to refute the findings that working mothers raise more successful children and are clearly angry you are unable to do so.

what strikes me is
Good parenting is about a lot more than meticulous home admin, an in-depth cleaning routine and long slow days with the children

If you can't imagine yourself doing anything but the above at home, it's clear what your problem is. YOU need a boss to direct you and tell you what to do.

Most of us don't need a job to have an identity and most SAHM are not home because they prioritise dusting and laundry. They have more time to do interesting things with their kids than the mums who are in the office full time.

And by the way, I did not always live in London and am very well acquainted with life in 'the north,' thanks. I'm 53 and I'm so grateful I had a mum who saw the time she spent with me as important and valued - yes, even 'playing dollies' How do you think children learn if not through play? How do they internalise self-worth or get the confidence to explore the world in their own unique ways? This understanding and approach to parenting is far more important than anything else, whether my mum was working or not and regardless of how much she earned or didn't earn.

My daughter is 23, just finishing an MSc and has secured a job with a starting salary of over £120k, aged 23. But, if she decides, in the future, she wants to take time out to spend some crucial years with her kids 'playing dollies' - and if she is in a secure enough financial position to make this choice, then I certainly won't be trying to belittle her for this. I'll be thinking, good for her. When the time comes, she will make the decision that makes most sense to her and that's all we can do.

Good parenting is absolutely about ‘long, slow days with the children’. Constant rush and switching from one hurried activity to the next is stressful for children. They open up and share what’s on their mind when in the company of someone present, attentive and responsive, not someone who is barely there.

Imaginative role play, or as you so disparagingly put it, merely ‘playing with dollies’, is vital to developing empathy and speech. Babies and toddlers are hardwired to learn language best from an educated, articulate, responsive mother who can give them proper 1:1 attention.

Good parenting is absolutely about keeping on top of admin. I’ve lost count of the amount of children I’ve seen sobbing in the playground because their parents sent them in a costume on the wrong day or forgot to send in their home learning project.

I led an Early Years team for a decade, and even 4 year olds are embarrassed and ashamed if their clothes are dirty/the wrong size. Older children express embarrassment if their homes are dirty, I’ve spoken to many who won’t invite friends over for that reason.

Oh, and plenty of research links higher academic achievements with having a SAHP to support, encourage and ensure homework is done as they get older.

Young children value you actually spending time with them above anything else.

Why don't you go and get some more 'statistics' on how many working people are essentially living in poverty. How many women are on benefits - whether working, married or single? There is a huge difference between a woman who has no qualifications and has children as a teen mum and is on benefits, compared to a woman in her 30s with degrees and / or professional qualifications in a marriage with shared transparent finances who makes an informed decision to SAH for a few years. Your 'statistics' make no sense because the reasons mums are not working, at any given time, are too complex and disparate to categorise.

You belittle time spent with children as 'playing dollies.' Yet you preach about 'educational outcomes.' Do you have any idea?

Look. It's been found in numerous research pieces that daughters with working mother's have more successful careers than those with SAHMs because they have had equality and a good work ethic modelled to them. It has been found in numerous research pieces that this modelling also means sons of working mothers have more equal relationships and do more child reading and domestic labour than those of SAHMs. This has been raised numerous times in this thread. The tiger cub kids you keep wittering on about who have been aggressively parented by their uber rich mums are so tiny in number that they have not skewed this statistic into the SAHMs favour. Therefore it is completely obvious to all of us, except you apparently, that what you're describing is vanishingly rare.

Present some actual proof, that what you are claiming happens a lot with multimillionaire tiger mums producing the next generation of prodigies by aggressively parenting them actually does happen all the time and is culturally relevant to anyone outside that tiny London wealth bubble and I might bother engaging with you. You have offered nothing of the sort so far. You're being a typical ultra wealthy person and showcasing how out of touch you are with the rest of the country. It's not a lazy stereotype talking about poverty which affects almost half of the group we are discussing. It's not a stereotype anymore if it's HALF OF THEM.

And yes, I did call staying at home with children playing dollies. Good parenting is about a lot more than meticulous home admin, an in-depth cleaning routine and long slow days with the children that many SAHMs have described on this very thread. I know, I know, you're not just doing that you're tiger mumming. But out here in the real world where there isn't top 5% wealth and day schools to fight over that isn't happening.

Use that exceptional education of yours to find some peer reviewed research that proves you are right or even find me some statistics that what you are claiming is normal is actually as common as you think. Because your opinions have no backing and I'm not the only poster who has pointed out you're talking rubbish.

And you actually talk about non-working women as "preferring to play dollies.' You actually typed that out? Ugh. If that is your view of parenting, there is no point engaging with you.