to think a lot of men will not marry if they already get everything?

I'm not saying whether it's 'right' or 'wrong' but that it exists.

So you are saying that a woman with very little education or prospects should "stay in her own lane" ?

They're not lovely, kind or decent people.

This is genuinely one of the contenders for the nastiest thing I've ever read on MN.

Marriage as we know it isn't even an immutable part of human history. None of your bonkers (and very shallow) claim would stand up to even the slightest bit of cultural or historic analysis.

Treating this pattern as some sort of immutable natural, biological fact rather than social conditioning is how the patriarchy continues to be propped up.

These are the sorts of cliches that we should be encouraging women away from.

I don't think there's a need to say sorry when challenging discriminatory language. Most people alive know that using the word "cripple" to describe someone is offensive. I wonder if they'd be so unashamed about using other bigoted terminology? I guess not because they know it would get them banned from any halfway decent forum.

That's interesting.

You make some good points.

I see things differently.

Men are encouraged to chose their partner in looks - young and beautiful. Not on how much the woman earns, what job they have, if they have an interesting conversation etc…
They are also used to have the power. Your manager, surgeon etc…. Are less likely to appreciate someone who can stand up to them and match them culturally, on income etc….

Women are more likely looking for an equal partner. which means the ability to have similar conversation, interests etc…it’s harder to do in a porter- surgeon set up than in a surgeon-surgeon set up.
I also feel that with a higher income/status, women are much more free to be choosy.

Omg this binfire of a thread gets worse and worse! I'm out.

Well nice to see you are admitting to
1- knowing nothing about disability at all bar that one case you found awful
2- being fully ableist too

The link you’re making between being selfish agd an awful partner agd being disabled is just 😂😂
And if you knew about disabled people you’d see many of them are stuck at the hands of abusive family members (parents, partner etc…).

I have to say, unfortunately, your views are not uncommon. Ableism is pretty common. And unlike racism, people aren’t shy to say it aloud

As a disabled person, I’d say crippled IS offensive sorry.

Take a guess.

I don't agree with that entirely, although I like that you say everyone rather than it being only women who are desperately seeking marriage and men are looking to get what they want for 'free'.
I don't think people generally are looking for something that is 'free or as cheap as possible. I think people in good relationships who are good people want an equal give and take. They want to provide (not only financially) for the person they love as well as receive.

@ClarkeandNewman calling people "crippled" is offensive.

No, it may be an outdated term, but not offensive.

What word would you use in this context?

I'm really surprised that you admit that. I suppose anonymity has its benefits. It's a really unpleasant view - and fyi, calling people "crippled" is offensive.

Gosh that went over your head didn't it?

...but you do recognise it.

"Hence the lack of marriage opportunity for disabled people, unemployed people, low earners, those who aren't conventionally attractive...".

Your words.

It's not "some version of humanity" it's the only version of humanity. Not liking it doesn't make it untrue. We all know attractive, well-educated and financially secure people make the most attractive prospective marriage partners. It's a simple fact and always has been.

Calling someone who acknowledges that truth "shallow", or pretending you don't recognise this truth doesn't make it not true.

Yup. Go look at half the relationships board. Men usually do what’s most convenient and suits them.

Never thought of it that way, but you are right! The only famous exception I seem to remember, now come to think of it, is that posh actress Duckface, who is I think related to Asquith, who married a migrant mini-cab driver. And it somehow stuck in my memory as so improbable, but those aristos and their quirks is a different thing altogether.

Some version of humanity I suppose. Not one I recognise, and thankfully not one everyone subscribes to.

I agree,
Women are always encouraged to "marry up".
So you have Dr + nurse, manager + secretary, factory manager + production line operative, MP + SPAD, solicitor + legal secretary, pilot + stewardess

What you don't see is female surgeon + hospital porter, female librarian + university professor, female council manager + dustbinman,

@ClarkeandNewman is calling your post "shallow" despite acknowledging the truth of it

"Hence the lack of marriage opportunity for disabled people, unemployed people, low earners, those who aren't conventionally attractive...".

It's unfortunate, but there are good evolutional reasons why women want a partner who can look after his family and why both sexes want healthy and attractive partners who are more likely to produce healthy and independent children.

It's not being shallow, it's being human.

I'd be ashamed if my children said they wouldn't consider a disabled partner. It wouldn't tell me they were "lovely, kind, decent" people. It would tell me I'd been an abject failure as a parent.

We all have our values I suppose, and some people value the material and outward appearances above all else. It's very sad, but true. At least it makes for a really pretty wedding photo eh?