to think a lot of men will not marry if they already get everything?

The unfounded assumption in your posts is when you say "the man is getting" and then list children and family life in the things he's getting. In lots of cases, maybe even most, children and family life are what the woman wants and what the man is putting up with.

“Right order?”
Its not the 1800s you know 😂

Of course they are. i never said otherwise, I was responding to the people who said he love you enough he’ll marry you,

The poster is focusing on the sex because that's what you're doing OP. Why didn't you start a thread about partners of whatever sex who don't want to get married because they're already getting what they want? Your thinking comes across as deeply sexist and outdated.

Women who want marriage sometimes think it offers more security. In reality that is highly debatable, and if the only reason someone isn't divorcing is due to the costs involved it is hardly going to be roses at home. If a woman has more assets and wants kids she should keep them separate because she runs a far higher risk of being left with the kids and no maintenance than the man. Time and again women get the narrative that they are gold diggers because to keep the kids housed they get the home and maintenance. Marriage isn't really helpful if the man has addiction issues or is in debt or a serial cheater (not sure why anyone would want to but some clearly do!). Really if a woman wants marriage that woman needs to be comfortable with speaking up and saying "I really want marriage in the next 2 years, is that on your timeline and something you definitely want?" and hold them to it. 2 years isn't hugely long so moving on after then is doable without having invested all of your childbearing years. As I said though, less women are choosing marriage because women are better off single when you look at financial independence, wealth building, mental health and stress management as well as social networks. Plenty of studies show this now and have done for about a decade.

Of course it's my interpretation, based on the language you've used and your take on marriage.

Why did you choose that angle? Why not men who specifically want a proposal from their female partners but aren't getting one because she's getting all the sex and housework she wants from him already? When he's pining for his big day, his chance to be the star of the show, to get that ring on his finger and be a Mr at last?

Isn't this a rather obvious point?

Men - and women! - who prioritise family life and intimacy and aren't bothered about the concept of marrying will obviously be happy to continue as they are. Why shouldn't they be?

More to the point of this thread, why are you dressing that up in hideously sexist terms like "giving things to him for free"?

If a woman didn't want to marry would you advise her male partner not to give her children or sex for free?!

It isn’t a case of infantilising women. Many of them simply don’t realise. The myth of ‘common law wife’ still persists, they think they hold a status that legally doesn’t exist.

My former neighbour lost her dp. His parents stepped in and she was completely sidelined in funeral arrangements, acknowledged by one line in the eulogy (delivered by his sister) as the mother of their child. Former girlfriends were spoken about at length and with far more affection - and they’d all been invited much to the despair and humiliation of the now grieving not-legally-the-widow.

Former neighbour thought she and her dp got on well with his family, but his parents & siblings were clearly not as keen on her as she thought.

I don't know tbh...

I think marriage and relationships have changed so much in recent decades. I think that men benefit from marriage as much as women do, but there is this narrative now that women want to get their claws into a man to take all his money. I'm not sure why people still think this, as most women ime do not do well out of divorce at all. Maybe if they marry someone who is MEGA wealthy. Not like the local surgeon or bank manager, but someone with serious money. But some men online act as if women are just out for what they can get, when the man in question owns no property and earns a bang average wage. Like, come on, you're hardly Jeff Bezos! No need to get all cagey about your lack of millions 😂.

Anyway, divorce rates are high, but so are break ups. I think people do commit less now, whether or not they are married or have kids. I don't think that is a good thing, but I do appreciate that commitment in the past may have been borne of necessity as there was no other choice without causing a scandal and / or becoming destitute.

Anyway, I am on the fence about your op. I can see an argument for not moving in or having kids with someone till you are married. But people so rarely do that now. It would be a niche dating pool.

So why do many women wait to be asked to be married? Just do the asking, get the reply and even if its a 'no' then you know where you stand and have the choice to get out and move on and find someone who wants what you want. The problem for many women is the ticking biological clock if they've already invested years in a relationship and know that there are less single men available, and face the emotional wrench of starting all over again. Men dont have the same time constraints.

It isnt necessarily whether women want to get married or not, or whether you see it as an outdated concept, it is about protecting your own interests legally speaking. The issues arent based on the romanticised view of finding 'the one', the big wedding or the death do us part...its taking advantage of the practical logical legal protections that are there for women, and their children.

A man once said something to me like why would he buy the cow when he gets the milk for free. Completely misogynist, horrible way of thinking about women.

Glad to report I was proposed to after having a baby.

It evidently is the underlying assumption from the way you talk about women waiting for men to marry them. Actually a lot of your language is very telling.

Getting what "for free"?

I will be more for specific then. Men in that situation go with the flow, if the woman wants to get married he will do that but if she’s happy unmarried then so is he. It isn’t often the case that one partner wants too and the other won’t. Most people on this situation are happy as they are.

It says exactly that in the C of E marriage service. So yes, in my view that’s exactly the case. Thankfully I fell in love with my DH who shares the same view.

Maybe the women don’t want to get married either.

There's no need to infantilise women. Why wouldn't people be able to make an informed decision?

My ex and I were together 30 years. Raised three children. Separated and went our own way perfectly amicably. Still friends. Never got married. Didn't argue about money. 😀