AIBU to think upper middle class professionals downplay how much they game education?

I agree that people do downplay the reasons they send their children to private schools but perhaps because they don’t want to come across smug. My boss always said he’d never send his kids to private school as he went and didn’t have a great time, but once his kids reached secondary age I remember him saying “that’s just what you do isn’t it”. I disagree with the take that most parents don’t care about their kids education and just send them to the closest comprehensive. This is a very privileged take - what options are there for most parents who cannot afford private or to move to a more expensive area with better state schools? Also, in my area the schools (despite all being a bit crap) are still so oversubscribed, you’d do very well to end up in your closest.

Read Jilly Cooper's book Class. It's funny. The upper middles, unlike other classes, are the silliest, she thinks. They aren't upper, so are the most ambitious, and play a funny game of pretending to be cool about that sort of thing ,while paddling like mad underneath. You should read it. It's funny. She considers working and upper class people more solid in their identity..Of course that's all a bit stereotyping now, but I think ,like all good stereotypes, there's some truth to it. It's even more true now, with so many more people having arrived in that bracket with widened opportunities for social mobility in the last 50 years. I know a number of people from school who were unbelievably tuned in to their upwardly social.signifiers and I was genuinely surprised when I grew up and found many had working class grandparents. Class in UK is weird I think. My best friend at school was lively, but she spoke like the Queen and her father, a major player in a particular field. was unbelievably precious about his position. It wasnt until years later I foind out her grandparents were from a particularly poor area of the NW. I was shocked. I thought they were at least several generations back of Eton. So I think the upper middles have always acted the goat a bit. Much of our literature is built on the humour that comes out of class gradation in UK.

Maybe we should. In the 1940s posh (private) schools did a sweep of local ordinary schools and had a nice chat to the children. If some child was running the class newspaper or something similar there would be a scholarship offer.

I find it hard to believe this was a totally fair system where nobody got left behind, but it was pretty much impossible to “game” for sure.

I have a similar background to OP, now live a firmly middle class lifestyle and totally agree with OPs observations.

I went to a grammar school, when I was young private tutoring to pass the exam was not commonplace, whereas now it the norm. My son is in a high performing state primary school and extensive private tutoring is an open secret - people don't generally talk about it and like to pretend their average ability child is just naturally capable of high grades. In year 1 at least a quarter of his classmates were receiving private tutoring - this went up to at least half in year 2. By year 4 almost all the children are privately tutored in KS2 in preparation for the 11+. This means that 'average' ability students gain a huge advantage over those from poorer families who can't afford the tuition even though those kids may actually be brighter.

I don't agree with it, especially for such young children, and do not pay for private tuition though we could afford it. My son is naturally very bright and is around the top of his class academically but he often feels he is behind and like he has to work harder to keep up which is demotivating. My unpopular opinion is that private tuition, especially at primary age, should be banned and we should go back to children being assessed on their actual ability rather than what their parents can afford...

A relative of mine who went to the local comp is currently at Cambridge on probably one of the hardest college/course combos to be accepted onto. No tutoring, just naturally bright and interested in his subject. My advice would be not to give your ds a chip on their shoulder about “posh twats”. My relative certainly hasn’t had an issue. There’s no them and us between the ex state and ex private school pupils. He just needs to go and work hard, enjoy himself and he might be surprised with who he makes friends with.

Dd got a first. She was tutored in A level chemistry simply in order to gain the entrance requirements for a Pharmacology degree.

Her teachers at secondary school were not Chemistry graduates and had a lack of subject knowledge of organic chemistry. We engaged a tutor to fill that gap. Most people I know round here who had tutors at A level had them due to a shortage of A level teachers with STEM specialism, lots of gap filling going on, rather than tutoring to keep up.

Yes, she could have worked harder and learned an important topic herself, but we had money to throw at it (£650 in total 'til she reached "comfortably confident" - i know people dont like talking about money, but that was what it cost us to fill the gap left by school), and we felt it was worth every penny.

I’ve had conversations about this many’a time with colleagues. To be honest we can tell who the weaker students are who essentially were dragged through a levels by constant tuition because when they get to uni, that isn’t a thing anymore and they just don’t perform as well. Uni is a bit of an equaliser in that sense. You could maybe pay someone to try and tutor you through an undergrad I guess? But it’s not something I’ve come across. They’re typically the 2:1 or even 2:2 students.

The first class students work their socks off generally speaking, or are naturally really very talented in the subject therefore probably didn’t need extra tuition to be good.

Being relaxed about it is fine if the schools on offer are all of a reasonable quality.

However, when even Ofsted says that the school your child is allocated a place at, isn't safe, then it would be neglectful as a parent not to worry about it and do everything possible to mitigate the risk.

Of course if you can afford it you game the system. My dc went to average schools, but I paid for private dyslexia tutoring, music lessons, hobbies … I spent what i could afford supporting my dc and I’m open about it. They also learned other soft skills which my now adult dc are very grateful for eg they helped host dinner parties and always got to join in due to exh’s work, thus on joining the military formal dinners were a breeze, small talk etc. They also said holidays visiting castles, stately homes and cathedrals helped them, moaned at the time!

I think most people what they can, there’s just a subset that doesn’t care, I’ve met them, those dc are the absent a lot, and now my dc tell me those girls in their classes have children, whereas none of those who went to university have …

Let's hope your ds is less of an inverted snob and doesn't brand all his course mates "posh twats" or he may find himself pretty lonely, and miss out on many of the benefits Cambridge offers.

Good luck to him on the 13th.

I do know people who say things like this, leaving them to succeed or fail on their own etc. It is patently untrue and continues even when their children are at uni.
When I was just under secondary school age, my parents moved house to a different town. This took me out of catchment for a really amazing school into the catchment for a very rough underperforming comprehensive. But no one thought about things like that back then, as everyone just went to the local school. I have done ok educationally but only later in life I have thought that maybe I could have had higher aspirations.

Yes I agree with you OP.

We’ve lived in two different (but both middle class) areas and I noticed different approaches to faith schools though.

In the first area everyone would sooner die than admit they weren’t really that religious and behaved like it was total coincidence that they’d started going to church just in time for school applications.

In our current area most people are very transparent that they have found god for the purposes of school applications alone. They’re very disengaged and some of them I think are quite rude in church services (reading their phones etc). So I actually preferred the first group!

Well done to him. He was clearly blessed in the genetic lottery and also worked hard.

If he hadn’t been, would you have done what you can to help him succeed regardless, or sat back to watch him settle to his unaided, low, level?

I think that society works better when the median parent is one who takes responsibility for helping their child succeed.

Some of education is rivalrous, but for the most part, having more more-educated children and more more-supported children is just better. Better for society overall, not just for those who personally benefit from that advantage.

Or, to put it more simply:

It’s good that we have football academies and Oxbridge, even though not all children can go.

The state should focus on making state schools reliably decent, not bringing down private schools.

That it’s laudable to teach your child maths at home even though not all parents can do this.

That we should not ban parents from hiring tutors, even though this may not go to the children who could, theoretically, maximally benefit from it.

I don’t believe this, no.

I believe, roughly, that we should order society such that opportunities are available in approximate proportion to how much benefit a child can obtain from them, that the state should provide a decent very high minimum (ie rather than constraining to some idea of equality) for all children, with the proviso that we accept deviations from this where the alternative would infringe too greatly on the liberty of parents or children to try to do the best for themselves or their families.

I think the above is much closer to what most people actually believe than your version.

None of our friends do anything other than talk explicitly about trying to get their kids into the best schools, tutors etc. We are the most relaxed even though my partner is a school governor.

I would love to hear your conversations when you explicitly say “I want her to get the best results possible and have the best chances in life “!
It would obviously be extremely rude and insulting to anyone who wasn’t able to afford it… that is why people give a more low-key reason .
For social etiquette.

Do you believe all children should be given the same opportunities? You are gaming a system if you know it's unfair and giving your children an advantage. It's not a choice if it's not available to everyone, it's disengenous to say your simply mKing a choice when it's not available to everyone.

Do you believe all children should be given the same opportunities? You are gaming a system if you know it's unfair and giving your children an advantage. It's not a choice if it's not available to everyone, it's disengenous to say your simply mKing a choice when it's not available to everyone.

But I don’t hear any of my circle saying this. My DC have been at private since age 4. Literally no one is saying this. How is it gaming, it’s just making a choice?

And in fact I’m very much NOT saying DC will find their own way etc. I’m saying the opposite. I’m saying I’m throwing everything I can at them to make sure they’re set up as well as they can possibly be for the future, because life in the west feels harder now. I’m not leaving anything to chance if I can help it.

That was replying to @hoofinator · Today 21:37

That was replying to @hoofinator · Today 21:37

As PP says talent, hard work and ambition takes you places. Stop complaining.

to be uncharitable, maybe they're a bunch of grasping, aspirational, middle class cunts who are insulating their kids as they themselves were. console yourself with the thought that they squirm if they have to interact with people outside their world.

It is possible that you too, high up in the hierarchy of disadvantage, and evidently proud of it, may also have been, compared to others even more lacking in privilege, comparatively more insulated than you ever realised.

Do you even know those others with less as children are there?

And why are so sure all well educated, advantaged people ‘squirm’ when they have to interact with people outside their world?

In so many instances this is far from true.
Doctors, reporters, great reformers, teachers do anything but.

Sorry not sorry feeling genuinely smug reading this. State education teacher/parent. Got kids from regular comps into Oxford, Cambridge via genuinely excellent teaching and kids' talent including my own child currently awaiting A level results with Cambridge offer. He's fully ready to stick it to the posh twats when he gets there. No tutor, no privilege, just talent and ambition. I have been delighted with the opportunities available to genuinely intelligent hardworking ordinary kids. They genuinely want the best kids from lower class areas to succeed. Gives me hope for the future tbh.