AIBU to think upper middle class professionals downplay how much they game education?

It’s an English thing, I think. You’re overwhelmingly terribly anxious about your children not making it in the world. Other cultures just mostly send their child t9 the nearest school because they’re mostly much of a muchness. We did actually let DS choose his secondary. It’s fine, but nothing special.

Um, some other cultures are way more overt about valuing education, getting their kids into the best possible unis, directing them in what subjects/professions to do. I think we're relatively relaxed. The fact that there are 'average comps' that most people go to would support that. It might be English to downplay things, but I think being anxious for your kids to be able to do their best is totally fine and normal, esp given how hard it is with things like SEN provision and teacher shortages.

As someone who's had 2 ND DC in the local average comp and needed tutors for both to help them not drown, I think it's OP who's being disingenuous. There's a lot of need for parents to take an interest and give extra support. Letting DC 'find their way' does not mean leaving them at the mercy of a struggling system and just trusting it will turn out fine.

I also went to a (less than) average comp and I know it's taken me 10 years longer to find my way in the world and do well in my profession simply because of OP's attitude that it'll be fine if you leave kids be and don't give extra support or direction. Took me forever to figure it out on my own while others surged ahead. The world isn't so meritocratic, there's a lot of who dares wins which is the opposite of the 'take what you're given and be grateful for it' attitude that can proliferate from the go to your local comp and leave them to it approach.

But that’s not “gaming” the system is it? That’s just making a choice available to you. Gaming the system is when people take out fake tenancies to get their kids into a high performing state school when they’re wildly out of catchment etc. Having choices, and using them, isn’t playing the system at all.

I disagree that other parents don’t care though but I think many don’t “understand” the system eg tutoring m, how to access bursaries etc.

They are walking cliches of privileged arrogance. So it makes total sense that they think their offspring have some magic DNA that makes them superior to the riff raff.

I work with them too and all I can say is at least you are also privileged now op. I’m part of the riff raff and the daily micro aggressions of the unconscious snobbery I experience is dehumanising and horrible.

Op you definitely have a chip on your shoulder. I send my child to private school to give her as many opportunities as possible, which include the 2 options that you have cited above HOWEVER these are not the sole 2 reasons.

I think you would benefit from broadening your mind. Also this whole class thing is bullshit, I bet your defintion of UMC varies wildly compared with the next person.

Chemistry is a subject where private tuition at A-level is important.

DC didn't get it, knew the material but not the exam technique - with some tough consequences at the time. Thrived as a scientist in academia and beyond but the first choice Uni was brutal.

The clearing choice was a more highly-regarded institution (still Russell group) at which they were very happy and in which city they still live.

Yes, I am talking about people who cosplay as being working class or not having good cultural capital when they do. Often times they are doing to this to fit in with their desired peers or they feel self conscious about their position. I’m not trying to moralise this behaviour because I think there are different reasons why people become like this, but either way, they will be vocal about not caring about prestigious schools or certain career paths while making moves that contradict this. Often times, people like this will genuinely have other values that they prioritise the same as prestigious education (I can relate to this), and a “good school” may also look different to them than others, but they are still going to use their resources to put their kids in the best position possible.

Yes, that includes the one in Liverpool I mentioned above. It is classed as a comprehensive but it is nothing like the comp I went to in the 80s.

100% agree. They want to think it's a level playing field while buying their child every advantage they possibly can. And then they pretend they and their children achieved it totally on merit and that anyone else could too.

You're honest. They're deluded.

I agree OP and I would also say it’s the same with financial help eg uni, house deposit, etc but it’s often downplayed or left out of certain conversations.

I’m not sure those things are mutually exclusive OP. I know a similar couple of professionals who have genuinely let their children choose.

surprise surprise when the girls looked at the schools they rather liked the look of the fancy private schools!

I thought the OP was not making much sense as what she was describing was just the way of the world - inequal access to social and financial capital - and surely no-one would deny it was the case.

But then I read the post above and now I see the OP's point. "I am not gaming the system by sending my child to private school." Yes, of course you are. You are using your financial privilege to give an unfair advantage to your child.

Of course, that does assume that "the system" is designed to give a equal chance to every child, regardless of their background, or have we just abandoned that idea?

If by gaming you mean spreading misleading rumours about a school to give their kids a better chance of getting in, coaching non-academic children within an inch of their life from the age of 5 to pass the 11+ or equivalent, scheming to deny the best tutors to their childrens' peers, 'accidentally' getting closing dates for opportunities wrong, taking PTA roles or governorships to advance their kids interests, knowing the best ways into Oxbridge, then yes.
The one thing they're ineffective at is competing with immigrant children whose parents prioritise education over all else and who ensure 4 hours of study per night, every night.
If you look at how someone like Nick Clegg got to an elite university, it's obviously not a level playing field but those with ability, ambition and support can still do well.

I think generally being an open striver wanting your child to be the best or be pushy isn’t really talked about here.

so everyone uses wishy washy language, when what they actually mean we want the best outcomes and are doing everything within our means to do so.

it’s like the kids who say they don’t study or do their homework. Ignore

Yes but it would be disingenuous to claim that e.g. their better results than their peers in the crap comp. were wholly down to their superior ability.

My son went to a very good private school from 11 and got excellent A level grades. His teaching was brilliant. I could tell the difference because his older brother went to the local comp. They were taught how to analyse material right from the beginning while my older son was just still regurgitating facts. The level of engagement from the teachers and knowledge of the children’s strengths was off the charts different.

Of course it’s gaming the system if we’re talking about access to better higher education and careers.

One of my nephews went to a comp. He didn’t get his grades for med school so had to go the biomed route. He’s now just about to become a. A&E consultant. He ALWAYS had the smarts but the teaching wasn’t as good.

And these medicine students are supplied by 20% of secondary schools in the country. Comprehensive schools also include those in affluent areas that may not be fee paying or grammars, but are still made up of a privileged few.

There are comps and comps. One of the highest performing and most sought-after schools in Liverpool is an LEA comprehensive.

Can you expand on the cosplaying comment? What does that mean?

Presumably because they want people to think their DC have achieved on merit in a system of equality rather than because they've paid to elevate their mediocrity.

It’s the council estate, single mum, benefits life, high crime rates, high pregnancy rates in young girls etc I am referring to not simply the standard comp

God I am so glad my kids have left school. School bores are so tedious. Mine went to a pretty ordinary state school, as did I, and we’ve all done really well. We are all very bright though. I can only think that parents who drone on about it so much are actually pretty insecure that despite their endeavours their kids are just average.

I’ve recently heard DF spout Daily Express crap about how lower grades for uni offers for DC from poorer backgrounds isn’t fair. I’ve reminded him exactly what I’ve been able to ‘buy’ to enable his DGC to do their very best. DS1 dragged one subject’s grades up from a D to a B through excellent private tuition. We had the same tutor back years later for a couple of months of tuition for DS2 after some disruption to the A level staffing at school and he was struggling with a couple of topics. £800 paid for eight hours of one to one plus access to the recorded sessions and DS says it made a massive difference. The topics were on the papers.

Wealth can absolutely make a difference and anyone who denies that is talking nonsense.

It’s an English thing, I think. You’re overwhelmingly terribly anxious about your children not making it in the world. Other cultures just mostly send their child t9 the nearest school because they’re mostly much of a muchness. We did actually let DS choose his secondary. It’s fine, but nothing special.

I’m laughing at how many are thrown off by the word “gaming” but I know exactly what you’re saying OP and you are right.

Many people with means downplay how much importance they put on specific schools and career paths, and the means they go to curate these paths for their children. It’s the adults equivalent of pretending not to do your homework.

I think the reasons are a combination of gatekeeping, cosplaying, competitiveness, mistrust and habitual behaviour from societal conventions that it’s “crass” to discuss such things.