AIBU to think upper middle class professionals downplay how much they game education?

Lack of involvement and interest will count more than money or class. To throw money at a kid, requires interest and involvement, and while someone on a much lower income won’t be able to do the same, they CAN compensate in other ways that will have a positive impact.

The thread isn't about those people you know though, is it? The OP is describing behaviour of people she knows and asking for thoughts on why they behave this way.
I commented on that as it's an interesting from a social and psychological perspective.
I'm not here to debate the rights and wrongs of what people do, or the semantics. This is a thread about the why.

I don’t understand your approach I’m afraid. You seem to have made things harder for your daughter than they needed to be.

It's like the 'bright kids will do well wherever they go' IME, not necessarily, low expectations( particularly if parents aren't high flyers, which child would school expect more of, Hugh, consultant surgeon son or Nat the council bin mans son?), class disruption, peer pressure, poor facilities, teens hormones, mental health. Intelligence does equal motivated.

And what is it that gives them the ability to work hard? What is it that gives them the ability to make choices and sacrifices?

but they wouldn't be there without the hard work.

It's boring to hear about advantage and privilege and ignoring the actual WORK that kids put, but it's easier to blame "wealth" on one's failing I suppose.

parental wealth buys unearned privilege
not necessarily wealth, more often than not it's choices and sacrifice.
Just look at the demographic of the 11+.

Yes you cannot be anything but from a very privileged background if you land in Eton, but that's what, around 250 kids in year 9? That's nothing. Eton is the exception, not the rule.

Most GPs with any sense these days are most definitely not partners.

It’s just choice, If I were rich I’d never send my child to private school unless I liked the feel of the place, even if it guaranteed results! I went to an Irish fee paying school and the attitudes in general there didn’t exactly say ‘well adjusted individuals will exit these halls!!!’ 😉

I think maybe the people you are talking about are saying that they are ‘relaxed’ within the spectrum of people that they know at their school? I’ve said the same sort of thing myself.

My children went to private school. Within that school there were parents who were incredibly pushy. I was very much more relaxed - constantly telling them that they should take a rest, have a break, that whatever they wanted to do was completely fine with me etc etc. They got plenty of subliminal message from school and schoolmates about the importance of giving it all your best shot so you can choices about how to earn your month in your adult life ahead.

They both pushed themselves (competitive with their peers and a general environment where it’s cool to do well and embarrassing to not care) and went into professional jobs after good universities.

But I am still always championing rest, balance, cutting themselves some slack. They - and life - put enough pressure on themselves. I always try balance that out those messages. It’s important to stay well and not take good physical and mental health for granted.

If the OP is a GP she is likely a partner in the practice and very well paid for the hours she chooses to do.

Good doctors don’t tend to shake in their shoes about the GMC either.

You have a very strange viewpoint.

And whilst the boundaries of middle class vs upper middle class can be opaque being a well paid professional at least in income terms would tend to make you UMC even if you have had to buy your own furniture.

the OP is talking about * downplay how much they game education? *

they are not GAMING education, they are just parenting.

I have never met one parent who didn't admit that they only live where they are because of the catchment, or that they were heavily tutoring if they wanted to push their kid to take the 11+.

Well it's obvious really. But there's a whole sliding scale from those who both go private and get tutors for their DC, and use their networks to gain them advantage, to those parents who aren't focused on education at all.

Amongst the parents whose kids are going to a comprehensive, there will be a big variation.
I know one family that are on the wait list for their nearest goodish comp. If their DC doesn't get in they will start at the poorer school and move to the better one once a place becomes available.

Yes. Until the big leveller comes out when uni applications are due.

Because the most popular courses (STEM, economics, medicine) at aspirational universities might be out of reach for those who gave the best opportunities to their children (who wouldn’t?)

• the student can’t show widened extenuating circumstances in their UCAS application
• the student hasn’t put in the above mentioned 4 hours of study every night

But I wouldn’t point the finger at those who are trying.

That's not an accurate description of Brits I know at all. Everyone I know goes above and beyond to get into a good school, living in shittier houses/flats so they're in an expensive catchment area etc. And I've never heard of anyone letting their kids decide where they go to school.

Hmmmm, we fall in the middle of all this. Working class BUT due to working in education we know the system a bit.

Ordinary school BUT we picked the best one in the area and were lucky enough to get in.

We pay for tutors, paid for SEN testing, are chasing the NHS for diagnoses and support.

Half of the parents of DC's school are just the 'send them to the local school' types. They think we are nuts getting tutors in, have looked at us as if we're weird for paying for private testing. It isn't on their radar to think about this stuff. Then there are a few in the middle that ARE aware/concerned, but either can't afford or don't want to invest the finances in the extra support themselves. And finally, there is the 30% or so that do game the system, as I suppose we do. They picked this primary because it's exceptional and are sending their kids elsewhere (either grammar or private) for secondary because our feeder secondary is shite.

At the other end of the scale my child has sen and went to a school that doesnt do gcses as one the whole the children arent capable of them. He has done other things like life skills and animal care and they do a barrista course with a charity cafe.

When i mention his schooling people literally rave on about all the things he does at school and how all children should do things like that and how its much more useful than gcses, how well set up he is for life, how lucky we are he can do animal care and make a coffee. how gcses are pointless and you dont need them anyway. But those same people pay for gcses tutors for children who are set for a 6 or 7 but could get an 8, get the revision guides, get themselves in an anxious mess about whether history and French is the right combination over geography and German.

I know they just trying to make me feel better that my son doesnt have gcses but it would be much more believable if they didnt live there life like gcses matter a lot.

I dont think peoole do it consciously.

It might be funny to you, but that just shows you've never thought very hard about how malleable a phrase like "upper middle class" is.

If the minor royals think of themselves as upper middle class, the lower middle classes like me struggle to articulate what those with greater social status than ourselves can be classified as. Could you help us, oh great social scientist?

i also don’t like we aren’t rich we went without things to send our kids to private school. You are rich. As want can we cut out to send our kids to private school. Food and bills!!

Well i didn’t game the system for Dd at all. Im middle class with a very professional job (university lecturer)

She went to the local crappy comp where something like 34% of students get 5x GCSE inc maths and English. She got mainly 6s and a couple of 7s at gcse. No tutoring. Do I think she’d have got better grades if she’d gone to a better school? Probably.

I didn’t guide her once towards a career or degree. In fact when she said she wanted to be an architect I tried to suggest graphic design as an option as I was worried that architecture is a really tough and long degree. But she got a first class degree and is now doing her Masters at what’s probably the 2nd best university in the U.K. for architecture.

So yes I do think an intelligent kid will find their way. Obviously she has still had privilege which other kids won’t have had. Growing up in a house where books and reading/learning are celebrated I think makes a difference. Going out at weekends to museums, etc.

We could have afforded private school but chose not to. We could have gamed the system and moved nearer the grammar in the next town (she passed the eleven plus but then didn’t get in due to distance). I know people who “rented” a crappy terrace in town and put it down as their address, to me that did not feel right.

I think most people are unaware of the Matthew Effect and in particular of the Matthew Effect in education.

@MasterBeth Of course, that does assume that "the system" is designed to give a equal chance to every child, regardless of their background, or have we just abandoned that idea?

Increasingly that does seem to be the case. There's a school of thought in the States - particularly neoliberals and libertarians - who would like to see a "voucher system" for education.

Every child gets a voucher from the government that buys them the bare minimum of schooling. If the parents can afford to top it up, and want to, they can apply the voucher to a fee-paying school or a specialist one, and make up the difference themselves.

No school gets any government funding apart from what they receive from the vouchers. So state schools that fail to attract enough pupils will (in theory) be forced to up their game, just to stay in existence. Market forces will (again in theory) bring up performance all round.

It's easy to see that this would entrench societal inequality across the board - but in some circles, consumer choice is king.

It’s clearly touched a nerve!

Quite.

When I lived in the UK, virtually every doctor I came across was either an immigrant / ethnic minority or white but noticeably working class. The idea that it’s a profession reserved for elites who went to top schools is laughable.

I absolutely recognise this OP - there is a trend atm where people like to appear super casual, super free amd easy and non pushy with their kids, while quietly/behind closed doors being very pushy. For eg most if asked would claim they only did very modest amount of tutoring for 11+ purely to ensure dc familiar with the style of questions.... Its lies they are often tutoring from year 3 or at least using online tuition programmes or doing additional work at home themselves with kids.

You hear a lot of 'we just want the dc to be happy' etc and then it turns out they've tutored for years to ensure dc gets a grade 9 at maths instead of a grade 8