AIBU to think upper middle class professionals downplay how much they game education?

Finding the most suitable education you can for your child is not "gaming the system". I love my ds so I looked around for where he would be happiest. Just a normal part of being a mum.

In my case, the only state place he was offered was at a comp Ofsted described as unsafe, with widespread bullying, risks of sexual assaults on younger pupils, and staff who had no idea who was on site.

So I put ds forward for a scholarship at a local independent, which he won. As a single mum, the half fees still meant substantial debt but I couldn't see another option.

I didn't "game the system". Anyone could have applied. DS had taster days at 6 schools and liked this one. I liked it because it was the best available for a small studious 11yo who had been bullied at primary. I nearly bankrupt myself in the. process. But ds' happiness means more to me than anything so it was worth it.

Absolutely this. My eldest DD is Oxbridge material and on course for the top GCSEs next year, probably all 9s in every subject. But she certainly is thriving hugely at the private girls' school she goes to, with a bursary and scholarship, and I'm certain she's doing so much better there than at the local comprehensive or academy.

Obviously, she's privileged, but I'm grateful my parents pushed for her to apply there. She'd be ok at the local state schools, but I sure it might have been so much harder emotionally for her to get on well either with those who are less academic or don't want to learn. She struggled with being bored at primary school, as she was so far ahead, so i think it might have been the same at a state secondary.

It’s going to largely depend on your background and the money available to you though. People will do what they can with the resources that they have and the knowledge that they have. Sometimes people’s worldview is limited by their own experiences and the world that they see around them. they may not see that uni is a possibility for their child or fully understand the income potential for them down the line. Their ambitions for their children will be based on their own life experiences.

I think being “pushy” is also different to trying to support your children to do well. I like to think I encourage and facilitate my children to do their best. I don’t forces extra study time but I’m there offering tutoring if I see them struggling with something.

Surely as a GP you will be familiar with the lack of social mobility in deprived areas, and inter-generational factors that affect education, employment and general attainment? Add to this explosion of awareness of special educational needs, neurodiversity etc and access to the right education for the right kid is harder than ever.

if a parent sends their kid to the local comprehensive they don’t care, but if they get tutors or try to send to an alternative school then they are gaming the system? As ever; parents can’t win!

I'm sorry to say I think a good proportion of parents don't care, not as many as 40%, probably more like 10-15% who are often fantastically undereducated themselves and don't see the point in it all, as the options aren't visible or real to them.

The biggest load of crock is that smart children will thrive anywhere.

Yes, that’s the great mantra that gets repeated over and over. God knows why, because it’s obvious shite. A bad school can hobble a bright child’s learning very easily.

You’re just pulling figures out of the air. I doubt that 30-40% of the population have no interest in which school their children go to. Even if the choice is ultimately out of their control, most parents still care.

You sound a bit silly for someone supposedly well educated. Sending a child to the nearest comprehensive school does not indicate that you care more or less about education than those who do not.

I am not upper middle class, though; I'm very much lower middle class, with half the family working class, so I'm not embarrassed about this stuff or money or wanting security.

I think you are right, there is often a rhetoric about 'letting the children find their way ', and people are less upfront about being very calculating and sharp-elbowed.

It is also true, though, that our values are also encoded in our behaviour and our choices, so you don't necessarily need to say out loud 'I'd like you to go to a Russell Group university'- a bright child, in a peer group of similar, will already get these messages from school, from other children, other parents, and in fact I've found it important to provide alternative messages; you don't have to go to university unless that's your choice; there's lots of good universities not just RG ones; being entrepreneurial is good.

I'm proud to be one of the sharp-elbowed middle-classes though, I'm shameless that the reason I work so hard myself and want to earn more money is for my own family to be more secure in the future. I'm happy to 'game' the NHS because it's not fit for purpose and I don't want anyone in my family to die unnecessarily waiting years for treatment, or overlooked, or with a letter lost about a critical appointment.

I don't feel the need to hide any of this but many do. I have a lot of friends who are first/second gen immigrant, and my partner is, and they are far more upfront about all this; why would you move country and then just accept any old school for your children?

Yeah there is that. Definitely. Some think anything below Eton is shite. Others just want a comp that has good art provision or not too strict uniform or reputation for social cohesion, and is in walking distance of their house.

Plus a lot of state sixth forms (particularly in London and Home Counties) are not comprehensive even if attached to comprehensive schools- they require you to have an average of 7 across GCSE, 7's in A level subjects (most have 8/9) and a min 8 to take maths. There are obvious advantages to those sorts of sixth forms where the teachers are able to teach to a pretty narrow ability range and students have a universally high performing peer group.

Also disagree with this. Future jobs couldn’t be further from my mind. I chose my children’s school because it had far superior facilities, extra curricular opportunities and yes, ‘atmosphere’ and ethos to the local village primaries around us. It’s very possible that they will end up going to fairly high profile public schools after prep. Nevertheless My eldest currently wants to go to agricultural college and become a farmer when he leaves school. I would be thrilled if his dream comes true and will certainly not feel that his expensive education was a waste in any way. All I want for my children is that they are happy and fulfilled.

The biggest load of crock is that smart children will thrive anywhere.

Smart children can also be very introverted, reserved and require calmer and less disruptive settings. My child is one of them. They are at a top Selective London private school and would have failed at just ‘any’ school.
Looking at his peer group, a lot of the kids are very much the same but are thriving at everything because they are in the right environment.

Should have proof read..🙈 Does not! 😂

Funny though, my (dear departed) DB had every opportunity to do anything he wanted. Wonderful childhood with my adoptive parents, grammar school education, comfortable middle class childhood with every privilege. He was very intelligent and could have done extremely well, if he'd applied himself properly. But, his personality and temperament, plus lots of poor choices, meant his life went one way towards drugs and he passed away aged 34 from bowel cancer.

Similarly, I had the same life and opportunities, yet have not climbed the publishing corporate ladder in spite of a degree and fairly good career in my 20s. Poor health and 3 (fabulous) DC mean now I'm part time as a freelance copywriter but earning a pittance. Less than minimum wage, and not something I'd have predicted in spite of all my life opportunities. I tried.

But there is a limit to my abilities now, after a head injury a decade ago, and I feel incredibly sad my parents did everything they could as excellent parents to give me the best chance. I've often thought "how did my life become this?" But I also look at all the things I am grateful for, and see it as a chance to make the most of what I do now.

Intelligence equals motivated? Motivation is usually the preserve of those who are not very intelligent, but shrewd and who know they have to be motivated to perform at a certain level, not to fall behind.

Many people work hard.

If you work hard from a position of privilege you will get further than if you work hard from a position without privilege.

But if the nearest school happens to be an academic grammar or high performing comp then what’s the issue? Most middle class parents live in middle class areas where there are more likely to be middle class high achieving state schools.

In days gone by middle class parents would grit their teeth and send their children to not so wonderful state schools and hope they wouldn’t sink, but not these days.

It's not 'gaming the system' OP, it's being ambitious for your DC and also being realistic. The 'system' requires that DC do well in their GCSEs, A levels and degree in order to have the best chance of success in life and if your DC do poorly they will struggle to progress to the next stage each time.

UMC professionals know this and they plan years ahead to ensure that their DC are going to have the best shot at a good set of exam results each time. Why? Because a) they went through the system themselves, b) they know how much more competitive life is now, and c) they may also be part of the system that is hiring grads and know what the deal is. So you can whine that it's 'gaming the system' if you like, but life is tough, it's competitive, and if you really 'just want your DC to be happy' and send them to a shit school when you know that if pushed they could achieve much better, you are, IMO, letting them down.

I'm sending my SEN child with learning difficulties and cognitive issues thanks to a badly mismanaged (NHS) birth where we both nearly died to a private school that caters to his needs. I'm not 'gaming the system'. I'm without apology and without mendacity paying for what I believe is best for him. The end.

I think the real difference is in what some parents consider shit schools or even a good enough school.

That being said, I only know one “if it was good enough for me, it’s good enough for them “ parent.

'You can’t force your child to do something as an adult they either don’t wish or are not capable of'. In my nieces year at a med school, they allow re-sits every year, considering that a D is a pass. Yes, a D is a pass, plus re-sits. They also have a wider participation programme - children who never did science subjects at school or performed badly at school (my niece) are given a leg up to med school on this programme. My niece does not want to study medicine, her mum does. Many people on her course are in med school for the money only, they are self-motivated. But a considerable chunk is there because their parents force them to do what they are not capable of, hence an abundance of Ds and multiple re-sits.

It's not "gaming" but it is privilege, yes.

What annoys me is class prejudice in recruiting for certain jobs and in certain fields.

I don't think it's 'the bottom of the barrel'. I think it's a large percentage who want their children to do OK but don't see education as of supreme importance. Maybe 30-40% of the population?