AIBU to think upper middle class professionals downplay how much they game education?

Sadly not the same at all.

You are giving me a really good giggle today! You genuinely believe doctors care more about education than others? That is funny. I'm not longer convinced this is genuine, I think you are enjoying winding people up, so I will leave you to your enjoyment and, apparently, rather interesting ideas.

Theres no game.
Some people are forthcoming with what they are doing - i tell anyone that asks DC will be going for 11 plus private/grammar and as such they have tutors. There are many in her class that are quieter about it but are obviously prepping too. We live round the corner from an oversubscribed popular comprehensive that churns out offers to very good universities. Going this route (11+) is about having all options open. It's ultimately none of my business what others are doing. If they ask me though I won't lie or fudge.

Of course people want their DC to go to good schools, have a good education which they enjoy and get good jobs. They’re not “gaming the system”, like most people with choice and money they’re choosing to live in nice areas. It’s hardly a conspiracy.

Mine both go to private school, and if I’m honest, that’s because education is a huge priority for us - not in terms of expecting them to do something academic or even go to uni, but in terms of them having choices and access, including for sport, art and music.
However, when talking to someone I probably am all easy breezy about it, because I’ve found people have an enormous chip on their shoulder about private schools, e.g. “oh that just wouldn’t sit right with me”, or “don’t you want them to mix with other children?”
If I say “no I am choosing to pay more than a mortgage because I care deeply about their educational opportunities and quality of life”, it sounds like I think anyone who has made a different choice doesn’t care. Which isn’t true, I strongly believe almost all parents want the best for their children. So, I downplay it so I don’t sound like a dick. (Many think I’m a dick anyway - private schools are vilified!)

You said your company turned a profit of £1-2m a year. That’s not the same as saying you earn £1-2m a year.

In the UK a small percentage of children overall attend independent fee paying schools or academically selective grammars - state schools are allocated based primarily on catchment / proximity to the school so yes most parents will send their kids to the local school…this is not rocket science.

Your post was about upper middle class parents - very few of these are going to pick “a genuinely average comp” because even if they opt out of the independent or selective system their local state school is likely to be what you describe as “high performing comp in an expensive catchment area”. My point was - upper middle class parents are ONLY going to have all the options you have listed as options. Somebody living in a nice bit of Surrey or Sussex isn’t offered an inner city Birmingham comp.

Not sure how your post might have “called me out” as can’t even see what point it is you’re trying to make…?

It’s very sad that you feel your parents didn’t care, and that this is normal and the case for most, I don’t agree that it is. It’s also sad this has given you such a chip on your shoulder.

I'm so so grateful my kids went to a comp that allowed them to be exposed to what was a closed as can be to a representation of society in England. Clever people were not bullied but neither considered special.

Teachers did pick up their potential and helped as they could but no more than pupils with SEN. Kids who choose to study medicine from these sort of schools are much more likely to do so because of a genuine interest in medicine rather than for the status. It makes them so much more grounded and emotional mature than some privately educated pupils.

However, not every kid who gave gone to private school are brought up with an attitude of privilege either. My friend's 4 kids went private from Y7. All worked PT from 16yo, all had to pay towards their driving lessons and tests, all had crappy cars to start with, and not all have gone to elitist professions but jobs they enjoy and pay okay.

Life is not all black and white thankfully. I guess it does come down who you hang with and make friends with.

Yes where your kids go to school makes a big difference. No one should be judged for doing the best they can for their kids. We dis indeed take a new job and move into a good school catchment area. I am quite open on this. I do on occasion meet some quite left wing professional people who jave dome exa tly the same thing but deny it. Or move catchment area and then slag off anyone who has gone private. This I find very hypocritical

OP, wrong choice of words. It is not 'gaming'. It is 'prioritising'.

However when it comes down to it none of them ever put their money where their mouth is
Well it's true where I am!

DC attended a below average comprehensive that was a mix of professional children, children from non working parents and anything in between. Attended another average college for A levels. Picked it over a well performing one that would have meant about 90 minutes travelled either way. Decided the time was better spent doing medical related volunteering activity.

About 3 to 5 children each year make it to medical school. Not high but it happens and yes, all those kids are naturally very clever. They also have no trouble adjusting to medical school, appeared to be better equipped than some of their privately educated fellow.

Some medical schools have much higher ratio of privately educated pupils than others. Those rates best are not directly linked with either.

Now you sound even sillier.

These kinds of comments do grate. We’re working class. My kid has , does, gets most of that thank you very much. Other than the good diet, but that’s because she’s fussy as fuck.

They won't "succeed anywhere" if that anywhere is a crap sink comp and they suffer daily disruption, bullying etc. That's what people don't realise. You don't know what the crap comps are like until you (or your kids) go to one!

One of our Jaden’s was doing GCSE work in y6! 😬

This . You can go to any school you want “out of these carefully researched, respected, academic 5 schools”. I bet the sinking/inadequate comp never features. Or even good/average ones going by some posters. Or a vaguely accredited arts /performing school. Or a carpentey apprenticeship amongst the A level options , uni options.

None of those questions relate to what type of school they attended.
Getting "extra points" for overcoming adversity is ok in my book and makes the playing field level.

I think you're overlooking the fact that even if the parents ostensibly give them a choice of school, for instance, they will still be influenced by their perceptions of what their parents think.

Also, if they are mixing with kids of a similar background whose parents do take a more hands on approach in picking 'superior' options, and the ones with laid back parents want to be with their friends they will follow suit regardless of the educational implications.

Just by being born into an educated family your children are already at an advantage - their vocabulary will be better, their diet will be better, they are more likely to have lots of varied experiences, they will be read to and books will surround them. They will take for granted that qualifications will results in rewards. They will be surrounded by people in good jobs. That’s before you factor in the school choice part. My children recognise that privilege, they went to a comp (we moved as didn’t want to send to private), it had mixed catchment but those that wanted to achieve weren’t ridiculed by their peers. There’s great clubs where we live - guides, scouts, sports etc and lots of outdoor space.
Being born into a middle class educated family is an all round advantage.
As a society we should be supporting less privileged parts of society to better parent from birth. Get rid of private schools and improve the value of comprehensive education for all (don’t get me started on grammar and faith state schools).

To turn this around a bit: all these parents striving for the best for their kids, i get it, i truly do. However, what are their views on other parents? The ones who can't afford private schools, the ones who can't afford a good catchment area?

Is the view that these parents don't care? Indeed, some parents don't care. I totally understand wanting to avoid being educated alongside kyle and jayden, who misbehave in class and don't do their homework. It's not ok for Jeremy and Jemima, they are meant for better things. But lots of good kids do have their education disrupted due to where they happen to live.

Are the middle class parents happy to push other parents out of the way and trample on other kids aspirations, just to further their own ends?

It's pretty despicable behaviour, which is probably why they play it down. Would I do it if the opportunity presented itself? Probably yes.

I know someone who beggared themselves to send their kids to private school. (Trying to buy an advantage). They were absolutely spitting nails regarding other friends who bought a more expensive house in an excellent catchment area. They accused them of gaming the system, and trying to buy an advantage. They were incandescent that there would probably be a better financial return on the house value, than on paying school fees.

To that end - and this will upset a lot of posters - but sahms can work "really hard."

Yes. It's like the people who say "I didn't revise" before an exam when they bloody well did. Claiming not to be bothered about where their child goes to school, then hey presto they're in an out of catchment grammar or a private school with a long waiting list. Maybe they are hoping for less competition?