To let my niece stay when she refuses to see her mum?

My sister is usually very sensible. Shes a very high achiever and always made good decisions. She split with my nieces dad when my niece was 7 and although she dated, she didn’t introduce anyone to my niece

So she stayed a single parent / maybe co parented with the father for 10 years, a decade of putting her child first and she waited until her daughter was 17 to have a new relationship. And your daughter thinks her mum is selfish for that?

What an absolute spoilt brat. Those 10 years wouldn't of been easy for your sister.

Your part of the problem, being a back and forth telling your sister snippets of what's been said, but not telling your niece she's being unreasonable, agreeing with your neice. It sounds like your enjoying this tbh but using concern / sympathy to look like your not.

A friendly ear is definitely needed - but OP is not the right person to be that friendly ear due to her split loyalties. It also puts her in the very difficult position that she might be told things in confidence by one person that she then has to actively not tell the other.

I to have a similar situation in my family, except it’s my nephew. My sister had him when she was 19 and for years he was the only child and grew up with my girls (they are similar ages) so have a sibling relationship with them. I know that my sister did date and have a couple of relationships while he was growing up, which is fine, but when he was 15 she met her now husband and decided to move him in despite the fact that my nephew didn’t like him (with good reason as the new man bullied and belittled my nephew). My sister didn’t believe her son when he said what was happening and so he decided to go and live with his grandparents (our parents). My sister still refused to see anything from his point of view ans refused to see him alone without the new man, who by then was her husband, so my nephew cut off all contact and lived with my parents until he went to university. My sister then had another two children who my nephew has refused to meet and doesn’t even acknowledge on the rare occasion they are together at a family event. My parents tried to reason with her ans say that she is cutting off her eldest son but she never listened. She blames me and our parents for taking his side and nit forcing him home or forcing a relationship with the younger kids. She is also furious with me and my daughters because we too aren’t interested in spending time with kids who are young, badly behaved and annoying. So she’s now cut off all contact with us. My nephew is now living with us because he has a job near where we live and the three of them are so close and my two definitely are more his sisters than the much younger kids. The age gap does matter, there’s no way a 19/20 year old wants a relationship with a sibling 19/20 years younger.

Saying a half or step sibling isn't a proper sibling

I feel sad for your sister. She has prioritised your niece for her whole childhood, provided for her, raised her and put her first. Eventually she met someone and fell in love. She put off living together with her partner to suit her daughter's needs. Having a child with her partner was not something that could be left longer, fertility has time constraints.
Your niece is only seeing her mum in mum role, instead if as a whole person. Did she expect her mum to be alone forever? Why shouldn't she have someone to share her life with?
I hope your niece can see this when she grows up, and make amends with her mum and appreciate the sacrifices she made for her. In the meantime, you maintaining your relationship with your niece us a good thing, but be careful not to damage your relationship with your sister.

Is there any chance at all that your sister's partner was inappropriate with your niece? It might have just been a remark or two or a lascivious look?

This could explain her attitude. She might not want to tell anyone in case she is not believed.

My sister is usually very sensible. Shes a very high achiever and always made good decisions. She split with my nieces dad when my niece was 7 and although she dated, she didn’t introduce anyone to my niece

So she stayed a single parent / maybe co parented with the father for 10 years, a decade of putting her child first and she waited until her daughter was 17 to have a new relationship. And your daughter thinks her mum is selfish for that?

What an absolute spoilt brat. Those 10 years wouldn't of been easy for your sister.

Your part of the problem, being a back and forth telling your sister snippets of what's been said, but not telling your niece she's being unreasonable, agreeing with your neice. It sounds like your enjoying this tbh but using concern / sympathy to look like your not.

I don’t want to break my nieces confidence and also don’t want to hurt my sister. I have spoken to my sister in the past and have been told to keep out so I think it’s best if I don’t say too much.

My sister is usually very sensible. Shes a very high achiever and always made good decisions. She split with my nieces dad when my niece was 7 and although she dated, she didn’t introduce anyone to my niece. When she met her partner, she was different. She fell for him very quickly, he’s a bit younger and very confident. I felt she was in awe of him and didn’t really like that. Even after 5 years, my husband and I feel like we don’t really know him. He’s very polite but we feel he deliberately keeps things superficial. I don’t think he is a bad man and my sister seems genuinely happy with him, but he doesn’t seem to want to be part of the family. He is a very good dad to their baby. I have always got on well with my sister but she is definitely more distant from us since meeting her partner. It could just be that she has a partner to confide in now so doesn’t confide in me as much though which is fine. I was shocked when she didn’t listen to my nieces concerns about him moving in and wanting to do things with just my sister as that was very out of character for her.

i dont know what to think really. She is entitled to live her life, but I do think my niece was pushed out.

I to have a similar situation in my family, except it’s my nephew. My sister had him when she was 19 and for years he was the only child and grew up with my girls (they are similar ages) so have a sibling relationship with them. I know that my sister did date and have a couple of relationships while he was growing up, which is fine, but when he was 15 she met her now husband and decided to move him in despite the fact that my nephew didn’t like him (with good reason as the new man bullied and belittled my nephew). My sister didn’t believe her son when he said what was happening and so he decided to go and live with his grandparents (our parents). My sister still refused to see anything from his point of view ans refused to see him alone without the new man, who by then was her husband, so my nephew cut off all contact and lived with my parents until he went to university. My sister then had another two children who my nephew has refused to meet and doesn’t even acknowledge on the rare occasion they are together at a family event. My parents tried to reason with her ans say that she is cutting off her eldest son but she never listened. She blames me and our parents for taking his side and nit forcing him home or forcing a relationship with the younger kids. She is also furious with me and my daughters because we too aren’t interested in spending time with kids who are young, badly behaved and annoying. So she’s now cut off all contact with us. My nephew is now living with us because he has a job near where we live and the three of them are so close and my two definitely are more his sisters than the much younger kids. The age gap does matter, there’s no way a 19/20 year old wants a relationship with a sibling 19/20 years younger.

There is a certain irony to this post

the emotions from the poster show right through her words, she allows herself, quite rightly, to feel mistreated by the adult child’s shitty behaviour but does not have even a dribble of understanding or empathy for the 19 years olds experience and perspective of what it was like for them when she arrived on the scene and the impact that had on the relationship with their father.

This is the root cause of most relationship difficulties where people cannot recognise that most situations have multiple truths and perspectives and if you cannot remotely put yourself into the perspective of the other person’s experience and only are capable of seeing things from your own perspective it is very difficult to have a decent relationship.

That same situation played out with the OP’s sister. She ignored her daughter’s perspective and experience completely.

Her daughter might not be great at considering her mother’s perspective but being honest in a parent child relationship that flows more in one direction than in other relationship types as parents are responsible for their children.

Honestly though her mother trying to cut off access to support from her aunt tells a lot in this situation too.

Disagree, she is saying "I've gone no contact with my mum and her partner, can I stay at yours over the summer instead". Which is fine, but saying okay is actively becoming part of the drama.

It’s probably a good thing you have your niece with you as it keeps contact and the chance of communication open.

I met my partner (now DH) when his children were 19 and 11. The 11 year old was fine. The older one, who was at university and did not live in the same country was unpleasant and rude. I had nothing to do with his divorce that took place over a decade beforehand.
My husband paid for his older child’s university, just as we will now pay for his younger child’s university. We have had a child together since and his oldest child is still distant, sneering and selfish. It does not matter I had nothing to do with the divorce - my mere existence upsets them. Too bad. We live with it. My husband is entitled to a life while he has loved, supported and been there unconditionally for his children. They will grow up and learn this. Let’s hope the OP’s sister in this does support her child at university, you have to make time for all your children.

It’s probably a good thing you have your niece with you as it keeps contact and the chance of communication open.

I met my partner (now DH) when his children were 19 and 11. The 11 year old was fine. The older one, who was at university and did not live in the same country was unpleasant and rude. I had nothing to do with his divorce that took place over a decade beforehand.
My husband paid for his older child’s university, just as we will now pay for his younger child’s university. We have had a child together since and his oldest child is still distant, sneering and selfish. It does not matter I had nothing to do with the divorce - my mere existence upsets them. Too bad. We live with it. My husband is entitled to a life while he has loved, supported and been there unconditionally for his children. They will grow up and learn this. Let’s hope the OP’s sister in this does support her child at university, you have to make time for all your children.

My sister has 2 children, my niece is 20 and my nephew is only 10 months, so a huge age gap. They have different fathers.

My niece is at university and since my sister had the baby, my niece has refused to spend holidays at home, preferring to stay in her uni city with friends. My sister isn’t happy with this but has had to accept it. My niece has told her that she doesn’t want anything to do with her or the baby. She thinks her mum is mad for having another child. My sister and partner have been together for 5 years and he moved in when my niece was 17. My niece got on ok with him but didn’t like him living with them.

My niece planned to stay in her uni city for summer but asked if she can spend the summer with us a couple of weeks ago. I said she could but that she should tell her mum. She did and my sister said we shouldn’t let her stay with us and we will make things worse.

My niece came to us last week and my sister is angry. I said that I am being neutral but that I will speak to my niece about how she’s feeling and try to help them sort out their relationship. My sister thinks I should tell her that she can’t stay with us but I’ve said she will always be welcome here. My niece is such a nice person but she is adamant she wants nothing to do with her mum, her partner or the new baby.

I feel really in the middle but my niece is still really young and I wasn’t going to turn her away. I’ve tried to put myself in my sisters shoes but it’s difficult as I can’t imagine having another child now and how my children would feel about that.

I’m going to let her stay but going forward what would you do? I’ve suggested to my niece that her mum comes for a coffee or to meet for a walk with or without the baby to try to sort things out but my niece isn’t interested. She just seems to be getting on with her life and seems happy without her mum in it. She helps around the house, gets on well with my children who are also home from uni, goes out with friends and is working. It’s like she has just wiped her mum out of her life, They had a good relationship until her mums partner moved in. She says she feels her mum put him first and although her partner is ok, she didn’t like living with another person.