To let my niece stay when she refuses to see her mum?

I don't think the OP has said that the niece is breaking off all contact forever.

This sounds to me like a hurt young woman who is taking some time away to process her feelings and build her life, in the knowledge that she is sadly unlikely to be her mum's priority again. Frankly I think that's better than the niece being at home and arguing with her mum and her mum's partner in front of the new baby.

Hopefully when the dust has all settled a bit their relationship will improve but I don't think anything that the niece is doing is destructive or self-centred - it's just a sad situation all round.

Team niece here too.

It is nuanced because no doubt the mother should be allowed to live her own life but she should have tried to have some insight into her daughter’s experience.

The mother sounds spiteful, self serving and unsupportive and they really are not traits that are going to serve her relationships well.

I am in a similar situation to you @ShadowShapes. The situation is very toxic and my older niece is NC with her mother.

Two siblings involved, big age differences, different fathers, the younger one wants contact the older one doesn’t.

I support my older niece, I listen to my sister but I make my own decision. I have a close relationship with my sister but will not let her tell me how to deal with my niece. I have had to stand up for myself on this and my sister and I have fallen out, but my sister holds our relationship too highly and has apologised and accepted my position.

I didn’t cause their issues, my sister can’t/won’t take responsibility for her role in all of this and my niece was a child/young person when her mother made the decisions to live her life in the way she did which has caused such a catastrophic situation. Choice of men and lifestyle choices were involved.

There is now a grandchild involved, my older nieces daughter, my sister has no contact with. It is really complicated but I now am mediating another generation that is victim to this NC, between the my youngest niece and her niece, the grandchild - they are both children. My older niece did not want them to have a relationship because of her NC with her mother….. and that is another chapter.

Also, for my older nieces MH, I stopped trying to mend their relationship. My younger niece and my great niece are both deeply effected by all of this. I do what I can to protect them and facilitate a relationship between them on neutral ground.

I really do feel for you OP, but you are a kind person, look after your niece, be clear with your sister that you won’t get involved in the dynamics of the why’s, the when’s and the drama.

Being an aunt in these situations is such an important and special relationship. Our sisters have created the relationships they have with their daughters, not always necessarily out of malevolence, but they are what they are.

You have a relationship with you niece that you have to nurture and support. Good luck!

I'm with niece on this. How many times do we see on here women putting a new man above their children and been told it's wrong? t's fine to have a new relationship but there's a way to do that without alienating your kids.
How dare she tell you not to have your niece staying that is so out of order.

I would provide my niece with a safe and comfortable place to stop and I would tell my sister that it was really important that the niece was supported if there is any hope of putting this relationship back on track. That being said, I can see why your niece would feel very hurt. Replaced at home by a new man, limited time from mum and no financial support. It would be fairly obvious that the new child will get support at Uni, but not her. I would be putting distance in place if I were your niece.

I am 100% Team Niece. Good on her for holding her boundaries. And well done you for having her to stay and maintaining your and your chilldren's relationship with her.
I am fully of the mindset that a parent's priorities should be to the children they already have. Anything over seven years is, imo, a ridiculous age gap as the siblings are at vastly different stages of life. Niece was probably looking forward to doing nice adult trips with her mum, and now the baby has put a stop to that. I HATE half-sibling crap anyway. It is usually not beneficial to the older child/ren, ime.

I agree you're a very good auntie! And I do think you were absolutely right to tell DNiece that she had to tell her own Mum where she was staying. She should not expect you to tell DSis for her, nor expect you to keep it a secret from your DSis.

I think your niece is still very young - there’s lots of time for things to improve between her and her mum. I would take any 20-year old saying they will ‘never’ do X or Y as being perfectly valid on how they feel now but with a pinch of salt as a long term plan. Tbh probably the same at any age…

I feel for them both, they are both hurt. Your sister frankly bears more responsibility (I say this as a 57 year old who met my dp 5 years ago when ds was 16. We moved in together very soon after he left for university and tbh it was still a bit soon. But at least no babies involved).

Yes you should always welcome her. But don’t allow her to badmouth your sister to you, and perhaps go and see your sister while she is with you, and likewise don’t allow your sister to badmouth your niece. Maintain your relationships with both. Don’t pass info on, although if they tell you news, ask if you can do so.

I find it really odd your sister didnt say thank you, thank you for keeping the family connection...please tell her I talk about her, love her lots etc etc..
To instead want her to be pushed further away from family is weird and not in my view...maternal

I feel sad for the niece. Her mum moved in some bloke, refused to spend any 1:1 time with her daughter, had another child while claiming she didn't have any spare money to help DD with uni (despite uni loans being based on parental income so the niece may well be on a reduced loan as her mum's household income is high enough to pay for IVF) then is trying to pull the rug from under her own DD further by insisting she not be allowed to stay at her aunt's house! I don't have a sister, I have a brother, but if my adult children weren't speaking to me and staying at my brother's my first instinct would be too be hugely relieved that they had somewhere safe to stay, not to insist he kick them out.

Op keep letting her stay, maybe she'll repair her relationship with her mum in time, maybe not, but at least she's staying close to her wider family.

Firstly, I think you sound like a lovely supportive auntie.
As much as I can feel empathy for your sister, she’s largely brought this on herself. She was too quick to have the new partner staying over regularly, especially as your niece said she wasn’t happy about it. Your sister didn’t listen to her concerns and has subsequently pushed her daughter away. You reap what you sow and all that.

Shocking to see so many posts supportive of sister rather than niece.

It sounds like DN was pushed aside in favour of new bloke. DSIS has created this situation so she has to live with the consequences.

You’re doing the right thing being a great aunt and support for your niece.

her mum isn’t supporting her in the way that Young adults need, so it’s great that you’re able to do that. She’ll really appreciate it as she gets older.

Nah, it's what we're told.

But feel free to add to the story by making stuff up.

I would let DNiece stay and don't get mixed up in the disagreement. If you're happy to have her then of course DNiece can stay, why not? You don't need to ask for agreement or permission from DSis. And don't agree to "talk to" DNiece about anything. You are not a go-between. Just keep confidential whatever each one says about the other.

You have a relationship with your DSis and you have a relationship with your DNiece. You can't fix whatever has gone wrong between them and if you try it will only damage your relationships with both of them.

But your natural urge isnt to think that there is probably more to a young woman cutting her mum off? You presume she's cut her mum out of her life because she's just a brat? That's some really weird thinking

I feel for the neice in that she felt she got pushed out and ignored by her mum, substituted by a new partner and baby. Less time for her. Her mum should have prioritised her daughter first.

Regarding having a second baby, thats not your neices call to make. That's a decision for her mum. Maybe your neice is embarrassed about having a 20 year age gap, or maybe shes concerned that there's even less time to spend with her now or less money for her. Either way, its not her decision. The baby's here now, she cant send it back. If your neice chooses not to have a relationship with baby brother, thats her choice.

Shes now opted not to speak with mum. That's her call to make. Im glad to hear she has somewhere to live with you. At least she won't feel total abandonment having you, her aunt and cousins around.

Your sister should not be telling you to not let her stay with you. Shes probably trying to force her to come home. You should remain neutral and try help facilitate a reconciliation, even if its a brief one. If she stays at uni accommodation, you will all lose her and she might not come back into the wider family fold.

Good luck. I hope there is a reconciliation. You only get one mum and whilst she may have felt abandoned over the past 3 years, she must have done a good job over the past 17 years.

Yes, what does your sister actually think will happen in her scenario? Her daughter will go back to her against her wishes and fuming with anger? Live on the streets? She sounds fucking horrible

So because we don't actually know these people, everyone should refrain from comment?

Would make for a rather quiet forum.

My niece refuses to speak to or see my sister, and has cut her out of her life completely.
My sister is delighted when my niece is in contact with any other family members or friends, because she cares about her daughter's wellbeing.

I feel sad for your sister. She has prioritised your niece for her whole childhood, provided for her, raised her and put her first. Eventually she met someone and fell in love. She put off living together with her partner to suit her daughter's needs. Having a child with her partner was not something that could be left longer, fertility has time constraints.
Your niece is only seeing her mum in mum role, instead if as a whole person. Did she expect her mum to be alone forever? Why shouldn't she have someone to share her life with?
I hope your niece can see this when she grows up, and make amends with her mum and appreciate the sacrifices she made for her. In the meantime, you maintaining your relationship with your niece us a good thing, but be careful not to damage your relationship with your sister.

This 100%
why move someone in when your child is 17? Could she possibly not have waited until your niece was ar university and settled???
has this man been inappropriate or made a move on her at some point would be my other worry too.
op sounds like a lovely auntie and the sister should be grateful her daughter is safe and being cared for.

Limited.

they are both 26. Their half siblings are 1 and 2.
their dad made clear that he wasn’t prepared to offer and support financially or otherwise after uni (which is perfectly reasonable, but one had their uni years disrupted by Covid and spent multiple lockdowns at uni rather than go to his dads and the other is quite seriously disabled and uses a wheelchair).

my son who is the non disabled one did try to maintain a relationship with his dad but it was a constant series of indications he wasn’t important anymore - eg at his graduation they announced the first pregnancy and he felt they could have waited until not his big day. Etc etc.

they do see him and the new wife (who they actually really like) and the half sibs but mostly at wider family events eg a cousins wedding, grandads bbq etc

my son isn’t going to be at the younger one’s christening because he’s away on holiday etc. they don’t spend Christmas with him - my son deliberately volunteers at a shelter over Xmas so as to have an excuse. My dd stays with me - she’s having trouble getting a job (disabled) and her dad has done fuck all to help.

'My sister thinks it’s fine as she waited til my niece was over 16 to move him in and that my niece was starting to live her own life, was out with friends a lot and was planning on leaving for university soon'

So why us she upset now niece did exactly that? Moved out, started own life, having her own opinions? Sister is pulling you in as her flying monkey to put niece back in her place for her.