To not understand attitude on here to grandparents helping with childcare

Nah. Parents can and do hand their kids over to others and walk away. Repeatedly. Happens every day, no enforcement of parenting exists. It's a choice every parent makes.

Child abuse by parents is not the discussion of course. Dumping your kids for the state or other relatives to raise is perfectly legal.

When people say parenting is your job they always only mean ethically as it can't be and is not enforced.

Which means you - as a transactional person -owe your parents even more for being one of the decent ones who chose to stay and raise you.

So anyway, stop demanding free labour from your mother. She already raised you.

Thanks for that. My mother died when my first child was three months old so I had no 'free labour' from her.

I provide regular childcare for my grandchildren. I don't expect anything in return.

Not bitter at all. My mum helped sometimes but she lives 3 hours away. She often said it was a shame but I also thought it would have cramped her style. She had her own life to live (and was still working PT in the early years anyway).

People choose to have children. They aren't thinking that those children will demand childcare for their offspring in 30 odd years time. Maybe that should be taught as part of sex education - remember kids, when you have sex, you also need toconsider if you want grandchildren as well as a baby in 9 months.

Helping out is one thing - being expected to retire to look after the children 3-4 days a week like someone did on one of the other threads is madness. If you are in your early 60s you could potentially still have your own parent(s) alive as well if they make it to their 80s/90s.

@WhenWillThisEverEnd I get where you're coming from but, as others have said, it really does depend on your family dynamics and how you were brought up. Some families are close emotionally but also geographically - and I guess you have to be quite close geographically to offer the kind of care to gc you're talking about it. Some GP see caring for their family as something they will automatically do in retirement. No-one would have to ask. The other perspective though, is that GP have already done child-rearing, maybe still work full-time, have their own dreams and ambitions for retirement. They have far less life to live than they've already had so now's the time to live their life. I can see both sides. My DP had virtually no interest in GC. DM carried on with her gardening and shopping, travelling, and DF carried on working full time until he dropped down dead. I never resented that. They were their own people of their own generation and had their own (very strong) personalities. They'd also brought up a large family. We weren't told when our GP died so there's no closeness or expectation. If you're from the kind of background I'm from, it's easy to support the individual and their dreams, because family members were mostly people you wanted to get away from and really felt quite alienated from. Every disaster that's happened in my life, I've handled it alone. It's not that I don't need help, it's that I've learnt to live and survive without it.

By all means expect grandparents to provide childcare.

Providing you will too when your turn comes. No excuses either.

Nope, if you're transactional - as you are - that's how it works. You definitively do owe your parents care in their old age as a transactional person.

Since you're transactional there is nothing you can offer your parents that can pay the bill you owe them for raising you. That's how being transactional works. Threatening elderly people with no care unless you can squeeze them dry means you - as a transactional person - are 100% in the wrong.

You owe them, they don't owe you.

But I'm not nuts or transactional, so I already know old people aren't owed free labour from their adult children.

Anyway, look after your own kids and stop demanding free labour from your mother. She already raised you. It's your job.

My DH and I look after the GC on a loose arrangement, usually every fortnight, after school, but it isn't relied on. We will be taking them away for 2 nights in the school holidays. It them feels a treat.
Although we are definitely tired out! They are 3 GS, all close in ages. It is exhausting work, but they are not young forever.

We like the loose arrangement as we go on several holidays a year. It works for our family.

You do realise that parents are legally obliged to care for their own children to a minimum standard? Failure to do so can lead to prosecution for cruelty and neglect and their children taken into care.

There is no such reciprocal obligation to provide care for elderly parents, especially if they haven't been great parents. No-one has to pay their parents back.

And it's entitled to 'expect' elderly care from your adult children.

It's fine to ask. It's fine for them to say no.

Surely it's the opposite scenario in @Stickonstars case?

She has absolutely no help from either set of grandparents but she lives in a small house in an expensive area to remain close to her MIL for when she needs help.

Her MIL is the entitled one, not OP.

My mum would only help in emergencies and i found that very cold. However, i supported and cared for them without any bitterness. But i would like to helping children with their children. I find the idea exciting in a way she didn't

Indeed -- apparently that's the reason we don't all die off at menopause. We only continue to exist to do childcare for the tribe. 🙄

I'm a boomer and in my day, a lot of women married and had kids quite young (I did). I never went to University until my 40s! And I never really travelled much or built a career as I was busy bringing up my four children. I loved every minute of it.
However, now my four children are grown, (I have two sets of two children...two millennials and two Gen Z) I feel like this is my time to travel a bit and do things I put on hold. I am extremely lucky that my children totally get that and tell me that this is my time!
However...I have been doing childcare for my granddaughter and I have to say I have loved it! It has given me a lovely bond with her.
I think balance in everything!

Yep, I think women should devote their entire lives to childcare. That's the natural order of things. How dare they want a life of their own, even if they're too old and knackered to look after kids. Fucking selfish the lot of them.

Yup. Women are a resource to be used up till they keel over and die. Men get to retire and have hobbies, plus female servants if they get married or have a daughter.

And yet still some women, like the OP, continue the cycle of misogyny.

This with bells on
and it’s rarely grandparents - often grandMA with the expectations and inevitably getting it in the neck

YANBU. I'm in the same position. Mum.helped a lot with the younger two who had sporadic health issues after she had retired.I am now, with help from my bro, caring for her as she has a heart problem and dementia. The circle of life.

Every situation is different, OP. Your post lacks nuance and understanding.

Lots of grandparents are happy to help if they can. And that often requires compromise. But what doesn’t fly on MN is adult children thinking they are automatically entitled to childcare from their parents, whether expecting them to give up work or hobbies or generally to sacrifice their own lives for grandchildren.

Who has said they expect it, though? The OP has said she is caring for her mother, not that her mother has in any way indicated that she feels 'entitled' to it. I certainly won't be expecting my DC to care for me.

You're extremely transactional, that's based entirely on your comments. "I think it would have nice to help me out occasionally as it swings in roundabouts! These grandparents seem not to understand that they’ll need help too!"

You tried to hide the veiled threat, but didn't succeed. Grandparents better offer free child caring labour or they'll get no help despite having already done their job of raising their children. Yes that's what you meant, it's the only possible reading.

You already owe your parents care - at least by your own transactional calculations.

But that's not how life works, of course.

Anyway, look after your own kids. As a grown adult you're not entitled to free labour from your parents.

How is not entitled to have dc & expect them to provide care for you when they are older though?

I think you’ve misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn’t saying that I cared for my parents so they owe me childcare. I don’t see caring for my parents as a transaction at all. I cared for my mum when she became disabled and I’m still caring for my blind father because they’re my parents and I love them.
I was simply saying that, having cared for my parents for many years, it would have been nice to have had some support myself occasionally. I also said that it was fair enough that my parents and in-laws didn’t help with my children, so I don’t understand why you’ve called me “extremely transactional”. You don’t know anything about my circumstances or how much I’ve done for my family, so I think that’s a very unfair assumption to make. Your posts do come across as a little goady, so do suspect you’re enjoying upsetting posters for your own entertainment!

You shouldn’t expect it - it is unfair to put these sort of expectations on anyone. Just as they shouldn’t expect you to become their full time carer at some point.
Count yourself incredibly lucky if you get support though!
I have to admit i’m jealous- i think we had less than 5 hours of childcare all in all, and oldest is 14…

Nah. Your parents already raised you, and as you've extremely transactional you can count your care for them against their raising you.

Rest easy, they still did a LOT more for you than you ever did for them. HTH.

I think people just have very different concepts of family. I agree with a pp that a lot of posts seem very individualistic to me but that’s because my family just doesn’t work that way. Everyone helps where they can. When I was a teenager I helped around the house and watched younger siblings occasionally. My granny helped out regularly and aunts and cousins all lend a hand to whoever needs it. My mum and aunts then supported my granny to live at home well into her 90s. It’s a safety net that supports us all and means we all feel very connected.

In that context, I would have been surprised and disappointed if my mum hadn’t wanted to help out. She’s done a mix of regular and ad hoc care for my sister and I and really made a huge difference to our experience of working parenthood. In turn, I’ll do my best for her and to support my own kids in whatever ways they need. Whether that means caring for grandchildren or other practical or financial support. That’s what family means to me. We all try and ease each others path through life.