AIBU to feel at a loss with my son's behaviour?

The sibling who is two years older and who does not appear to have behavioural challenges is a strong indication that there is precisely FA wrong with OP’s parenting.

@Django1988 when / if you see a doctor do mention the pain tolerance. It’s a red flag for autism which a professional will be aware of.

That’s like saying homosexuality didn’t exist because it wasn’t permitted. Or brain cancer didn’t exist because it wasn’t diagnosed. It was there, you just didn’t see it.

Smacking can stop bad behaviour immediately. But if a child has issues (like trauma, or neurodiversity) they are expressing through acting out, hitting them doesn’t help long term.

Look at this another way - since corporal punishment reduced as a parenting method, we can clearly track that mental health outcomes have improved in the UK. Many forms of violent crime have steadily come down, child abuse has declined, child murder rates have declined (most murders committed by parents of course), domestic violence has come down and suicide rates have reduced.

It’s not hard to track that if you have a kid who is angry and struggling, and you work with them rather than beating them into submission, they are probably more likely to turn into a decent functioning human being rather than an angry bully who starts smacking others as soon as he is big enough. No method is perfect but there is a huge body of evidence to support that corporal punishment is one of the least effective methods of discipline.

I was wondering if a “reset” Mat would work. So a specific small mat or blanket so it’s portable. Kind of like a time out, but not. Poor behaviour and you go there with him, let him calm and then the kind hand reminder, move his chances marble so he has a visual clue to how many left until you go home.

You must be shattered.

Perhaps more engaging in play with him along with the other kids. Sadly not the opportunity for you to catch up with the adults.

DN was very like this, when they visited DH would stick with them like glue and keep them engaged with game/play/book/activity and it worked.

OP 10 min play time with a parent per day is nowhere near enough. What game can you finish in ten minutes? At his age he needs lots of attention from you and if he's not getting it then he will act out because that is the only attention he does get. I see it all the time in my own son, when he's being an aggressive infuriating toad, I can guarantee that I've not been giving him enough time and attention for the preceding few days.
Also people are saying "punishment doesn't work" but you haven't done punishment. Or, consequences. When he leant on your friend's tent he gets one clear calm warning then he gets physically removed, by you not by her. Same with hitting, stealing toys etc.
Also when you are giving your child a lot of attention and play, you have a lot more leverage because they have something to lose. The threat of walking away/not engaging or paying with them is often enough.
My first is also much calmer/easier than my second. But then our entire world and routine revolved around the first, and I was a much nicer calmer parent because I had more time more energy in the tank. I have to work a lot harder to make it up to my second. When I do, he behaves so much better. When I don't for a few days, we have gradually worsening behaviour til we reach biting and hitting.

Fair point, but obviously not working for this mom

Well, that's what you do. Or you leave him at home (you'd need to organise a babysitter for him). You need to follow through with punishments quickly & sharply.

This sounds really difficult. Personally though if I knew my child was likely to hit other children at the park I wouldn’t take him there as it’s not fair on the other kids. I know it’s hard, especially when you have more than one child. Would you be better off going to woods / the beach / fields where this is less likely to happen?

He sounds exactly like my nephew at that age. ADHD. He is 12 and a lovely boy now but honestly back then I used to worry he might be a psychopath. I babysat him once when he was about 3 and he kept biting my kid and kicking my dog with a big smile on his face. I had them behind me protecting them while he ran around trashing the place. You wouldn't believe it if you met him now.

My friend had a similar issue. They tried everything being strict, punishing, lenient etc.and the little one started calming down naturally around 7-8 years old. He is still very active but at least stopped hitting everyone and causing issues. Like yours he has friends at school which is good and he is naturally very bright. Be patient, he will get there.

Yes it is - I did a level criminology I remember them saying about this.
but there is chance to change these behaviours with the right help and guidance but I don’t think MN is the answer

@Django1988 refer yourself to social services and be really honest with them and say you’re concerned for your other child’s safety - hopefully they will support as they have a duty of care to protect all children

PS
Mean what you say.
You've had some good advice here about parenting ND children.
Meds are great for adhd.

Can you get a GP appointment to be referred for assessment for autism and adhd? Either to CAMHS or however the pathway works in your area? Diagnosis isn't the end of the matter but will help with getting support.

Punishment doesn't work very well with ND kids. They can't make the connection.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5484488-ehcp-support-thread-no-6?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

I'm not sure what you mean by "sent a referral for an EHCP" but are you aware you can make a parental request for one to your LA directly? IPSEA have a template letter you can use on their website. You can then appeal if they refuse to assess.

I have AuDHD boys. Rewards and consequences don't work in the same way as they might for NT kids because the impulse control doesn't work in the same way. They act before thinking so there's no time for them to remember the reward/consequence before acting.

A better approach is to find ways of meeting the dopamine seeking that are less harmful. Any exercise, but we found trampolines, biking etc best. Rough and tumble play. Spots with a 'risk element' e.g. climbing, gymnastics, horse riding etc. Also crunchy or spicy food can be great for some kids. When triggered having ideas for how to take out that energy e.g. punch a pillow, put on music and dance, run around etc. Plus lots of 1:1 time. (And if it is ADHD then meds are brilliant).

Praise whenever things are going well. Try to avoid constant criticism as that feeds into the cycle of poor behaviour.

Reread what you have written. Your not consistent at all.
expectations of behaviour clearly given before leaving home consequences followed through immediately and every single time

I’d say you need to start being a bit more harsh and using the word no etc, i really think more problems are caused by not using no . You want to ensure that his behaviour doesn’t stop your friends inviting you etc it just feel awful when you’re doing everything to be a good parent. Sorry you’re going through this. Has your daughter ever had similar behaviour or different temperament.

The high pain threshold really stands out - he doesn't sound like he has any concept of causing others pain because for him it's just not a thing. Abstract concepts are hard at the best of times but pain is such a tricky one to explain if he doesn't have that natural feeling to something that should be a painful stimuli. I think you might need to phrase it differently - rather than hitting hurts for instance, maybe hitting means we have to stop playing because X is feeling sad and needs time to feel better so we can't play now.

Just adding one more thing for OP. When a child is desperate for attention, they often misbehave because they are then rewarded with attention. Even if you are telling him off, or it's negative - to a young child that is still giving them what they want.

So if he is misbehaving, don't engage. A simple "that's not allowed" and either remove him, give him a time out, or take away whatever he is using/messing around with. Children who act up for attention absolutely hate being ignored. So you could try this whenever you see bad behaviour from him. Redirect, then ignore. Once he's behaving well - no matter how small - praise and give rewards. Sitting nicely, being kind, being respectful, not shouting, and so on. Lots of praise and attention. He'll very quickly learn that to get your attention, he needs to display those positive behaviours. Works very well imo (with neurotypical children more so than neurodivergent). Give it a try, and remember, consistency is key.

TBH, I think this book is geared more for children of primary school age or younger. There are probably things which would be relevant for teenagers but some of the advice and particularly the suggested wording is going to be a bit patronising for a teen.

The thing I found most helpful about this book is that it breaks things down really far so you don't miss any part of the advice. Unfortunately it does have the effect of making the advice sound completely obvious, but when I did slow down and follow it step by step, I realised that I was making a lot of the mistakes the book assumes that you might be making, even though when I read it as advice I thought "Obviously!! Obviously I would not do that" when I was focused on that one particular step, I noticed over the next day or so that I inevitably did. So it was quite helpful to have things pointed out, but I probably only noticed this because I actually followed it. If I had just read the book and not implemented the advice then I probably would have dismissed it as too basic.

I have a lot of empathy for you op and could have written this post myself. My eldest was very similar and my second child was easy and well behaved. It’s not always the parenting!
I was given a lot of ‘advice’ about how to get my ds under control, smack him was my parents advice and I read many books and attended many parenting courses. Nothing worked. He saw various doctors and school were baffled with his wild behaviour as he could also be lovely at times.
At age 6 we finally got a referral to the community paediatrician and he was diagnosed with ADHD and recommended to try medication. It helped hugely.
He was rough with animals too at age 5 and we had to rehome our cat for her own safety. Fast forward 10 years and he’s caring, gentle and adores animals. He’s great with his baby cousins and is very charming. He was also diagnosed with ASD and PDA.
The medication saved us and helped his sister too as he was very unpredictable with her.
Try to get help from professionals is my advice. A private educational psychologist report might be worth considering if you can’t make progress with the NHS.
Wishing you all the best.