Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The public doesn't hate Net Zero as much as RW politicians insist they do

542 replies

Echobelly · 23/07/2026 21:55

Politicians like Kemi Badenoch and right wing newspaper front pages love to talk as though everyone hates Net Zero and sustainability as concepts and wants us to get on with burning coal and drilling for oil. They seem to stake an awful lot on people not like sustainability mostly because they see it as 'woke' as far as I can tell.

I think most people don't think about it enough to hate it really and most people broadly want the outcomes of improved sustainability but would like it to happen without it needing any investment. I reckon some people don't like feeling 'nagged' about saving the environment and in many ways I don't blame them as, while we should all do our bit, really it's up to governments and big businesses to actually do the damn work to truly make a difference.

Maybe Net Zero has a bit of a PR problem as it sounds unachievable, and also maybe it sounds like you get nothing, or something will be taken away from you/society. It might do better to have a name that sounds more 'positive'. But it's a shame because ultimately, even if for some reason you don't believe in climate change it seems to me that the benefits of renewable energy (such as ending energy dependence on some not always friendly countries and less pollution) are pretty clear and I'm not sure people realise it's not just powering a few kettles, it's often around 50% of UK energy production

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 22:46

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:33

London to Amsterdam takes 4 hours, and any regional flight (like Manchester to Paris or Edinburgh to Amsterdam) takes 6 to 9 hours by train. The European Commission cannot lawfully approve a ban on those routes under Regulation 1008/2008 because the rail alternative is not legally considered "appropriate or efficient.

When the EU Commission evaluated France's domestic flight ban under Regulation 1008/2008, they strictly limited it to just three routes (Paris-Orly to Bordeaux, Nantes, and Lyon). Because of EU Regulation 1008/2008, the European Commission forced France to exempt all connecting/feeder flights from the ban.

You can change the name of the company running the train via a government tender, but only one train operator can physically fit into the restricted border terminals at St Pancras or Gare du Nord at one time. Tendering a capped space does not increase capacity, it does not lower costs, and it does not create the open-market competition she claimed would lower fares.

The Trade Balance: The UK has a massive outbound tourism deficit with Europe—far more British tourists visit France and the Netherlands than vice versa.

The Reality: Eurostar is already a wildly profitable commercial cash cow for the French (SNCF) and Belgian (SNCB) state railways. She is suggesting that European governments should willingly destroy their own highly profitable airline sectors (Air France/KLM), flood their own crowded rail networks, and spend their own taxpayers' money to heavily subsidise an international train line just to help British tourists get a cheaper holiday. They would never agree to it.

Joining Schengen absolutely fixes the passport bottleneck, but it doesn't magically create a wave of new train operators. The tracks are already legally open to competition right now. The reason Eurostar has a monopoly isn't the passport queues—it's the fact that buying custom fire-safe trains to go under the sea costs half a billion pounds, the private tunnel operator charges astronomical track tolls to every single train, and Eurostar controls the only maintenance depot in the UK. Getting rid of passport checks doesn't build train depots or lower a private company's multi-thousand-pound tunnel tolls.

The headings and em-dashes absolutely reek of AI. Have you run out of your own ideas ?

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:44

justasking111 · 25/07/2026 22:35

Well it isn't now unfortunately

"Sicily and Sardinia battle wildfires as scirocco winds fan flames" https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/sicily-and-sardinia-battle-wildfires-as-scirocco-winds-fan-the-flames.html

Most of Italy's fires are caused intentionally..if they weren't starting them, the numbers that happens spontaneously would be lower and easier to maintain

justasking111 · 25/07/2026 22:35

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:03

They need to stop worrying. Italy was perfectly fine last week.

Well it isn't now unfortunately

"Sicily and Sardinia battle wildfires as scirocco winds fan flames" https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/sicily-and-sardinia-battle-wildfires-as-scirocco-winds-fan-the-flames.html

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:33

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 21:52

You are mostly refuting proposals that nobody made.

Nobody suggested that Britain could unilaterally announce Schengen membership, confiscate the Channel Tunnel or selectively ban Air France while preserving identical British Airways flights.

The proposition was explicitly hypothetical and multilateral: if Britain and the relevant European states accepted that aviation demand had to be reduced because of binding climate limits, what legal and economic arrangements could replace short-haul flights?

Yes, joining Schengen would require unanimous consent. That makes it a major diplomatic undertaking. It does not make the proposition logically or legally impossible.

“Political appetite is exactly zero” is simply your prediction that politics can never change.

The claim that EU airlines possess an absolute right to operate every route is also wrong. EU Regulation 1008/2008 specifically allows traffic rights to be restricted for serious environmental reasons, subject to proportionality, non-discrimination and Commission oversight.

France has already used that mechanism. The UK-EU TCA likewise permits non-discriminatory environmental restrictions.

A negotiated reciprocal withdrawal of London–Paris, London–Brussels and London–Amsterdam flights would therefore be very different from Britain arbitrarily excluding foreign airlines. It would require treaty-level agreement and would apply to all operators.

Nor would changing the tunnel’s economics constitute “state theft”. Getlink operates under a concession granted by the British and French governments. Those governments cannot tear it up without consequences, but they can negotiate amended charges, purchase capacity, subsidise access, extend or alter the concession in exchange for consideration, or compensate the company.

Governments renegotiate infrastructure concessions routinely. Nobody proposed forcing Getlink to provide free access.

The supposed contradiction between public subsidy and competition is equally false.

Railways already combine regulated infrastructure, public-service contracts and private operators. Companies can compete to win a contract to operate a defined, fare-capped service. Competition occurs through tendering rather than by allowing several operators to duplicate half-empty trains at unregulated prices.

France, Belgium and the Netherlands would participate only if they judged the benefits worthwhile. Those benefits could include lower transport emissions, more visitors in both directions, higher rail use, reduced airport congestion and additional economic activity. The subsidy could be divided according to passenger origin, infrastructure use or emissions reductions so that no country simply funded British tourists.

You are entitled to argue that this coalition would be politically difficult or expensive. That is credible. But repeatedly calling negotiated policy change “illegal”, “impossible” or “state theft” merely assumes that every present treaty, concession and market arrangement must remain unchanged forever.

The climate does not care that existing commercial arrangements are convenient. If governments eventually conclude that some aviation activity is incompatible with their emissions limits, those arrangements will have to be lawfully amended, regulated, purchased or replaced.

London to Amsterdam takes 4 hours, and any regional flight (like Manchester to Paris or Edinburgh to Amsterdam) takes 6 to 9 hours by train. The European Commission cannot lawfully approve a ban on those routes under Regulation 1008/2008 because the rail alternative is not legally considered "appropriate or efficient.

When the EU Commission evaluated France's domestic flight ban under Regulation 1008/2008, they strictly limited it to just three routes (Paris-Orly to Bordeaux, Nantes, and Lyon). Because of EU Regulation 1008/2008, the European Commission forced France to exempt all connecting/feeder flights from the ban.

You can change the name of the company running the train via a government tender, but only one train operator can physically fit into the restricted border terminals at St Pancras or Gare du Nord at one time. Tendering a capped space does not increase capacity, it does not lower costs, and it does not create the open-market competition she claimed would lower fares.

The Trade Balance: The UK has a massive outbound tourism deficit with Europe—far more British tourists visit France and the Netherlands than vice versa.

The Reality: Eurostar is already a wildly profitable commercial cash cow for the French (SNCF) and Belgian (SNCB) state railways. She is suggesting that European governments should willingly destroy their own highly profitable airline sectors (Air France/KLM), flood their own crowded rail networks, and spend their own taxpayers' money to heavily subsidise an international train line just to help British tourists get a cheaper holiday. They would never agree to it.

Joining Schengen absolutely fixes the passport bottleneck, but it doesn't magically create a wave of new train operators. The tracks are already legally open to competition right now. The reason Eurostar has a monopoly isn't the passport queues—it's the fact that buying custom fire-safe trains to go under the sea costs half a billion pounds, the private tunnel operator charges astronomical track tolls to every single train, and Eurostar controls the only maintenance depot in the UK. Getting rid of passport checks doesn't build train depots or lower a private company's multi-thousand-pound tunnel tolls.

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:03

Benvenuto · 25/07/2026 21:42

Except there have been a few posts on MN recently by people concerned that they’ve booked holidays in places that are too hot or have wildfires.

That isn’t my “plan” as I’d much rather places weren’t affected by wildfires. Unfortunately it does seem to be this year’s reality.

They need to stop worrying. Italy was perfectly fine last week.

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 22:00

Cleo65 · 25/07/2026 21:55

No, I really do - it makes my bristles bristle when I even hear those two words...

Which two ? “Human” and “Extinction” ?

Cleo65 · 25/07/2026 21:55

No, I really do - it makes my bristles bristle when I even hear those two words...

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 21:52

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 21:24

This is again really stupid and shows you haven't really applied any critical thinking. Nul points for you.

  1. The UK cannot just choose to "join" Schengen. Joining the Schengen zone requires unanimous agreement from all 29 member states. Given that the UK spent the last decade executing Brexit and tightening its borders, the political appetite for a UK government to sign up to a borderless European zone—or for the EU to permit it—is exactly zero.

  2. This is a flagrant violation of international law. Global aviation is governed by strict bilateral Open Skies agreements and the UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA). If the UK unilaterally banned EU airlines (like Air France and KLM) from landing at Heathrow or Manchester, the EU would immediately trigger retaliatory bans. British Airways and easyJet would instantly be banned from landing anywhere in Europe, completely crippling the UK travel industry and triggering an international trade war. The European Union’s core foundation is the Single Market, which strictly enforces the free movement of services and fierce market competition. Even if we rejoined, under EU Air Transport Single Market rules, any EU-based airline has the absolute legal right to fly any route within the bloc. The UK government could not rejoin the EU and then ban Air France or KLM from flying to London; the European Commission would immediately strike it down as an illegal, anti-competitive breach of EU law.

3 and 4) France and Belgium have absolutely no incentive to do this. Eurostar is already a wildly successful commercial cash cow for them via their majority-state-owned railways, SNCF and SNCB. Why would French and Belgian taxpayers agree to funnel their own tax euros into a "trilateral partnership" specifically designed to subsidise travel costs for British tourists visiting their countries? It is a total diplomatic non-starter.

  1. This is literal state theft. The Channel Tunnel is not owned by the British, French, or Belgian governments. It is owned and operated by Getlink, a publicly traded, private commercial company listed on the stock exchange. Governments cannot just "write off" a private company’s financial arrangements and force them to let trains use their multibillion-pound infrastructure for free. That is called illegal expropriation, and it would trigger multi-billion-pound lawsuits that would bankrupt the Treasury.

  2. This is the ultimate irony. You spent your first five moves arguing that governments should aggressively intervene, ban competition (airlines), fix flat prices, and nationalise infrastructure. Then, in Move 6, you demands "ending the monopoly" to introduce free-market competition. You cannot create a state-controlled, price-capped, heavily subsidised railway system and then expect private competitor train companies to magically appear and compete on the tracks. They would go bankrupt instantly trying to compete against a state-funded price cap.

You are mostly refuting proposals that nobody made.

Nobody suggested that Britain could unilaterally announce Schengen membership, confiscate the Channel Tunnel or selectively ban Air France while preserving identical British Airways flights.

The proposition was explicitly hypothetical and multilateral: if Britain and the relevant European states accepted that aviation demand had to be reduced because of binding climate limits, what legal and economic arrangements could replace short-haul flights?

Yes, joining Schengen would require unanimous consent. That makes it a major diplomatic undertaking. It does not make the proposition logically or legally impossible.

“Political appetite is exactly zero” is simply your prediction that politics can never change.

The claim that EU airlines possess an absolute right to operate every route is also wrong. EU Regulation 1008/2008 specifically allows traffic rights to be restricted for serious environmental reasons, subject to proportionality, non-discrimination and Commission oversight.

France has already used that mechanism. The UK-EU TCA likewise permits non-discriminatory environmental restrictions.

A negotiated reciprocal withdrawal of London–Paris, London–Brussels and London–Amsterdam flights would therefore be very different from Britain arbitrarily excluding foreign airlines. It would require treaty-level agreement and would apply to all operators.

Nor would changing the tunnel’s economics constitute “state theft”. Getlink operates under a concession granted by the British and French governments. Those governments cannot tear it up without consequences, but they can negotiate amended charges, purchase capacity, subsidise access, extend or alter the concession in exchange for consideration, or compensate the company.

Governments renegotiate infrastructure concessions routinely. Nobody proposed forcing Getlink to provide free access.

The supposed contradiction between public subsidy and competition is equally false.

Railways already combine regulated infrastructure, public-service contracts and private operators. Companies can compete to win a contract to operate a defined, fare-capped service. Competition occurs through tendering rather than by allowing several operators to duplicate half-empty trains at unregulated prices.

France, Belgium and the Netherlands would participate only if they judged the benefits worthwhile. Those benefits could include lower transport emissions, more visitors in both directions, higher rail use, reduced airport congestion and additional economic activity. The subsidy could be divided according to passenger origin, infrastructure use or emissions reductions so that no country simply funded British tourists.

You are entitled to argue that this coalition would be politically difficult or expensive. That is credible. But repeatedly calling negotiated policy change “illegal”, “impossible” or “state theft” merely assumes that every present treaty, concession and market arrangement must remain unchanged forever.

The climate does not care that existing commercial arrangements are convenient. If governments eventually conclude that some aviation activity is incompatible with their emissions limits, those arrangements will have to be lawfully amended, regulated, purchased or replaced.

Benvenuto · 25/07/2026 21:42

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 20:10

Thankfully your plans will never come to fruition. People will still fly, they just won't chose the UK as a base

Except there have been a few posts on MN recently by people concerned that they’ve booked holidays in places that are too hot or have wildfires.

That isn’t my “plan” as I’d much rather places weren’t affected by wildfires. Unfortunately it does seem to be this year’s reality.

Persephonia1966 · 25/07/2026 21:32

I think a bigger problem of trying to end any train companies monopoly is that you can only get one train on each section of track at a time. And all the trains on a stretch of track need to coordinate pretty closely. So the free market never fully applies to train services. Within the Eurotunnel this effect is multiplied unless we want to build multiple tunnels under the ocean. Or some sort of Futurama style tube system.

Fortunately while government policies round net zero haven't been perfect, they are a lot more realistic and sensible than those imagined by the fear mongerers and better thought through than "Just make it happen".

caringcarer · 25/07/2026 21:26

I hate it because the UK only produces tiny amounts of pollution compared to many other countries and we won't drill for our own oil yet will pay others to drill then import it to the UK. Madness. It also costs souch money. I think many of the public hate it. Kemi not wrong.

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 21:24

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 20:40

Move 1) The UK joins Schengen. This removes passport processing delays altogether. You just get the train.

Move 2) We ban flights from Paris, Amsterdam and Brussels from landing at any UK airport.

Move 3) We form a trilateral partnership with France and Belgium to rewrite the rules around the operation and use of the channel tunnel.

Move 4) That trilateral partnership agrees fair subsidies for EU or UK passport holders to use the service at a significantly lower price, ensuring the cost of operating it is met for the operating companies.

Move 5) Write off any outstanding finance arrangements on the tunnel itself, and do not charge train companies for using it.

Move 6) End the monopoly of Eurostar / LeShuttle.

This is again really stupid and shows you haven't really applied any critical thinking. Nul points for you.

  1. The UK cannot just choose to "join" Schengen. Joining the Schengen zone requires unanimous agreement from all 29 member states. Given that the UK spent the last decade executing Brexit and tightening its borders, the political appetite for a UK government to sign up to a borderless European zone—or for the EU to permit it—is exactly zero.

  2. This is a flagrant violation of international law. Global aviation is governed by strict bilateral Open Skies agreements and the UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA). If the UK unilaterally banned EU airlines (like Air France and KLM) from landing at Heathrow or Manchester, the EU would immediately trigger retaliatory bans. British Airways and easyJet would instantly be banned from landing anywhere in Europe, completely crippling the UK travel industry and triggering an international trade war. The European Union’s core foundation is the Single Market, which strictly enforces the free movement of services and fierce market competition. Even if we rejoined, under EU Air Transport Single Market rules, any EU-based airline has the absolute legal right to fly any route within the bloc. The UK government could not rejoin the EU and then ban Air France or KLM from flying to London; the European Commission would immediately strike it down as an illegal, anti-competitive breach of EU law.

3 and 4) France and Belgium have absolutely no incentive to do this. Eurostar is already a wildly successful commercial cash cow for them via their majority-state-owned railways, SNCF and SNCB. Why would French and Belgian taxpayers agree to funnel their own tax euros into a "trilateral partnership" specifically designed to subsidise travel costs for British tourists visiting their countries? It is a total diplomatic non-starter.

  1. This is literal state theft. The Channel Tunnel is not owned by the British, French, or Belgian governments. It is owned and operated by Getlink, a publicly traded, private commercial company listed on the stock exchange. Governments cannot just "write off" a private company’s financial arrangements and force them to let trains use their multibillion-pound infrastructure for free. That is called illegal expropriation, and it would trigger multi-billion-pound lawsuits that would bankrupt the Treasury.

  2. This is the ultimate irony. You spent your first five moves arguing that governments should aggressively intervene, ban competition (airlines), fix flat prices, and nationalise infrastructure. Then, in Move 6, you demands "ending the monopoly" to introduce free-market competition. You cannot create a state-controlled, price-capped, heavily subsidised railway system and then expect private competitor train companies to magically appear and compete on the tracks. They would go bankrupt instantly trying to compete against a state-funded price cap.

DdraigGoch · 25/07/2026 21:14

1dayatatime · 24/07/2026 00:04

I saw a great example of the lack of logic in net zero in Australia.
So Australia mines large amounts of coal, but because of environmental restrictions then don't burn it to produce electricity.
Instead they export it by polluting trains and ships all the way to China.
Once in China it gets burnt in very basic and highly polluting coal fired power stations but producing very cheap electricity.
This cheap electricity is then used to produce cheap solar panels (using Muslim minority Uyghur slave labour also keeps the costs down).
These cheap solar panels are then exported to Australia on another highly polluting ship.
But once in Australia the solar panels can then be used in the "drive towards Net Zero" and "stopping climate change ".

When logically if you kept the coal in Australia, burnt it in a cleaner coal fired power plant then on a global basis you would emit less CO2 as well as providing cheap non intermittent electricity.

I suppose that you could just manufacture the solar panels in Australia, if you like. But it would be idiotic to burn coal in a country with such sunny weather. They should build Concentrated Solar Power stations like Spain has.

DdraigGoch · 25/07/2026 21:03

justasking111 · 23/07/2026 22:22

Was talking to some architects recently. It's looking like the present planning and design of buildings will be consigned to the bin in parts of Europe including the UK because of climate change. Underfloor heating will be off the table, large areas of glass. We'll be looking at ways to avoid getting too hot.

Why would underfloor heating be "off the table"? You know that if it is run from a heatpump it can also be used to cool a floor (and by extension a ceiling if installed in the floor above)?

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 20:40

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 19:56

How are you going to change this then? Any details or plans? How are you magically going to change the economics and cost structure? Please educate me.

Move 1) The UK joins Schengen. This removes passport processing delays altogether. You just get the train.

Move 2) We ban flights from Paris, Amsterdam and Brussels from landing at any UK airport.

Move 3) We form a trilateral partnership with France and Belgium to rewrite the rules around the operation and use of the channel tunnel.

Move 4) That trilateral partnership agrees fair subsidies for EU or UK passport holders to use the service at a significantly lower price, ensuring the cost of operating it is met for the operating companies.

Move 5) Write off any outstanding finance arrangements on the tunnel itself, and do not charge train companies for using it.

Move 6) End the monopoly of Eurostar / LeShuttle.

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 20:10

Benvenuto · 25/07/2026 19:44

What’s to address - you can fly to all of the destinations you mention from Heathrow & I think our definitions of what being poor means differ somewhat. The rail companies are all being nationalised so they can’t have a “toxic monopoly” & people’s lifestyles may well have to change with climate change. Not being able to fly is a fairly minor issue compared to the disruption those caught up in the current wildfires are facing & sadly those wildfires may mean traditional tourist resorts are no longer so appealing as holiday destinations.

Thankfully your plans will never come to fruition. People will still fly, they just won't chose the UK as a base

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 19:56

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 19:41

Literally every single one of those problems can be solved by changing the rules / altering policy.

”Oh we can’t do it because some ink exists in close proximity with some paper”.

Jesus wept.

Make. It. Happen.

How are you going to change this then? Any details or plans? How are you magically going to change the economics and cost structure? Please educate me.

Benvenuto · 25/07/2026 19:44

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 19:10

It will take ages. 4.5 hours to London. And then 2 hours to Paris. Whereas a direct Edinburgh to Paris flight can take 1 hour 50 minutes. So much faster. And you didn't address all the other things I said

What’s to address - you can fly to all of the destinations you mention from Heathrow & I think our definitions of what being poor means differ somewhat. The rail companies are all being nationalised so they can’t have a “toxic monopoly” & people’s lifestyles may well have to change with climate change. Not being able to fly is a fairly minor issue compared to the disruption those caught up in the current wildfires are facing & sadly those wildfires may mean traditional tourist resorts are no longer so appealing as holiday destinations.

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 19:41

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 19:28

Forcing a per-kilometre flat rate and banning yield pricing is completely unworkable for Eurostar because it fundamentally misinterprets how international high-speed rail functions.

Eurostar operates on a modest 10% to 11% post-tax profit margin, managing an expensive €2 billion fleet replacement programme and a €520 million debt mountain. Outlawing yield pricing makes dynamic subsidisation illegal, meaning Eurostar could no longer use premium last-minute business fares to fund cheap £39 mid-week bargains—forcing the mandatory flat rate to be set at a high average that prices lower-income holidaymakers out of the market entirely.

Furthermore, every train must pay thousands of pounds in a massive flat toll just to pass through the Channel Tunnel, meaning a cheap per-kilometre fare wouldn't even cover the physical cost of entering the tunnel.

Worst of all, because post-Brexit passport stamping and stricter border control checks strictly limit terminal capacity—forcing Eurostar to leave hundreds of seats empty on purpose on peak services—artificially slashing ticket prices would trigger massive, unmanageable passenger demand that the stations physically and legally cannot process, forcing the company into instant bankruptcy while stuck on a permanent multi-year waiting list.

Literally every single one of those problems can be solved by changing the rules / altering policy.

”Oh we can’t do it because some ink exists in close proximity with some paper”.

Jesus wept.

Make. It. Happen.

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 19:40

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 19:11

You must really lack an understanding of economics

You must really lack a sense of the urgency of our situation.

When a moonshot is needed we have to literally deliver a moonshot. Not continue to slowly poison ourselves to service an “economy”.

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 19:34

Benvenuto · 25/07/2026 19:28

Reports this week that noise pollution might be linked to Parkinson’s. Lots of health conditions are linked to nitrogen dioxide and other pollutants in the air. Neither are good for people’s health - and if an industry makes people ill then there’s the risk of legal action.

Reports will say lots of things. Boo hoo it's noise. Driving cars also caused air pollution as well. The roads and cars around the airport already cause the pollution.

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 19:30

The Transport Secretary has explicitly stated that the government cannot guarantee train tickets will get cheaper under renationalisation.

As lines like South Western Railway, West Midlands Trains, and Govia Thameslink Railway have been systematically brought into public ownership under the transition to Great British Railways, fares have remained tied to macroeconomic policies rather than magically dropping. Their profit margins are tiny as well.

Benvenuto · 25/07/2026 19:28

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 19:13

Noise , boo hoo it's an airport. Will help so much with local jobs.

Reports this week that noise pollution might be linked to Parkinson’s. Lots of health conditions are linked to nitrogen dioxide and other pollutants in the air. Neither are good for people’s health - and if an industry makes people ill then there’s the risk of legal action.

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 19:28

Forcing a per-kilometre flat rate and banning yield pricing is completely unworkable for Eurostar because it fundamentally misinterprets how international high-speed rail functions.

Eurostar operates on a modest 10% to 11% post-tax profit margin, managing an expensive €2 billion fleet replacement programme and a €520 million debt mountain. Outlawing yield pricing makes dynamic subsidisation illegal, meaning Eurostar could no longer use premium last-minute business fares to fund cheap £39 mid-week bargains—forcing the mandatory flat rate to be set at a high average that prices lower-income holidaymakers out of the market entirely.

Furthermore, every train must pay thousands of pounds in a massive flat toll just to pass through the Channel Tunnel, meaning a cheap per-kilometre fare wouldn't even cover the physical cost of entering the tunnel.

Worst of all, because post-Brexit passport stamping and stricter border control checks strictly limit terminal capacity—forcing Eurostar to leave hundreds of seats empty on purpose on peak services—artificially slashing ticket prices would trigger massive, unmanageable passenger demand that the stations physically and legally cannot process, forcing the company into instant bankruptcy while stuck on a permanent multi-year waiting list.

Benvenuto · 25/07/2026 19:25

Persephonia1966 · 25/07/2026 18:57

It is but it's expensive. I've done it a lot, but I was visiting from abroad with an interrail ticket and those are great because they make almost all train travel in the UK free. You don't need to book weeks in advance to get the cheapest journey, you just decide what day you are using it on and you can do that on the day itself. The problem is this is only available to people visiting the UK from Europe, you can't use the interrail pass to get around your own country except to leave or enter it.
If they made those sort of journeys more affordable and flexible it would be so much better than flying by plane!

I agree that tickets are too expensive & too complicated - hopefully this is something that can be sorted out with the new nationalisation.

Swipe left for the next trending thread