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The public doesn't hate Net Zero as much as RW politicians insist they do

542 replies

Echobelly · 23/07/2026 21:55

Politicians like Kemi Badenoch and right wing newspaper front pages love to talk as though everyone hates Net Zero and sustainability as concepts and wants us to get on with burning coal and drilling for oil. They seem to stake an awful lot on people not like sustainability mostly because they see it as 'woke' as far as I can tell.

I think most people don't think about it enough to hate it really and most people broadly want the outcomes of improved sustainability but would like it to happen without it needing any investment. I reckon some people don't like feeling 'nagged' about saving the environment and in many ways I don't blame them as, while we should all do our bit, really it's up to governments and big businesses to actually do the damn work to truly make a difference.

Maybe Net Zero has a bit of a PR problem as it sounds unachievable, and also maybe it sounds like you get nothing, or something will be taken away from you/society. It might do better to have a name that sounds more 'positive'. But it's a shame because ultimately, even if for some reason you don't believe in climate change it seems to me that the benefits of renewable energy (such as ending energy dependence on some not always friendly countries and less pollution) are pretty clear and I'm not sure people realise it's not just powering a few kettles, it's often around 50% of UK energy production

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Shakeoffyourchains · 26/07/2026 12:04

WhippedCreamPie · 26/07/2026 08:46

Or we can use the local North sea for our gas needs. We use most of it anyway. Use the local supply.

Would love to know where you've got that graph from cause it literally contradicts every report I've ever seen on the lcoe of energy from any reputable source...

WhippedCreamPie · 26/07/2026 12:03

If you want to stop burning fossil fuels.....how will people heat their homes and drive their cars.

Heat pumps are very expensive, we don't want people to be in fuel poverty and unable to heat their homes now. Not everyone can afford an EV and also ICE cars have a longer range.

MandingoAteMyBaby · 26/07/2026 11:38

The “something” that needs to be done is clear: stop burning fossil fuels.

Our energy & transport policies need to do that first and foremost, followed by our food policies.

That’s essentially what our net zero policies are for.

I’d like to see massive investment in nuclear power infrastructure for base load.

Where confusion arises is when other environmental measures are conflated with net zero. Water quality. Plastic waste. All important, but the threat to our very existence is climate related.

GeneralPeter · 26/07/2026 11:15

MandingoAteMyBaby · 26/07/2026 08:21

You understand this is a crisis, right ?

You realise we have no choice but to act ?

When World War II started, the Royal Air Force had a small number of mainly fabric covered low-powered biplanes. By the time it ended we had huge numbers of 400-500mph aircraft, strategic bombers, trained pilots to fly them and total dominance of our skies.

Because in a crisis you can - and must - make literally anything happen to survive.

I support net zero (though not how we are doing it) and take catastrophic climate risk seriously.

But there is a danger in framing this as an overriding crisis.

The main risk is that it drives thinking along the lines of “something must be done, this is something, therefore this must be done.” Ie we get the wrong solutions because we aren’t applying normal scrutiny.

Secondly, we can end up fighting the wrong crises. It’s hard to get this right when talking about big future risks at the best of times, but made harder if we have picked one as the crisis and think of it in war-footing terms.

Benvenuto · 26/07/2026 11:14

WhippedCreamPie · 26/07/2026 09:45

We still need to drive cars though. If people are worried about air pollution they can choose to wear a mask or an n95. Their personal choice

Fewer people need to drive cars than do at present though - much more efficient to use trains for long journeys & bicycles for short trips. Buses to cover where the trains do not go.

Then those who do have to drive benefit from lower pollution & fewer cars on the roads.

The Netherlands have been doing this for years & their driver satisfaction rates are higher than ours.

Net zero may not be popular, but neither is mask wearing.

MandingoAteMyBaby · 26/07/2026 10:47

WhippedCreamPie · 26/07/2026 09:45

We still need to drive cars though. If people are worried about air pollution they can choose to wear a mask or an n95. Their personal choice

My car does not release diesel particulates, CO, CO2, N2O into the air around where I drive it. And I can and do drive it. I need a car and I need to drive, so I ensured mine doesn’t release poisons into the air.

MandingoAteMyBaby · 26/07/2026 10:45

WhippedCreamPie · 26/07/2026 08:55

A "crisis". More people in the UK die due to the cold every year than due to the heat. What impact does destroying our industry and making our own energy prohibitively expensive have when we make up 1% of global emissions and we've massively decarbonised anyway.

Climate change may yet cause extreme cold in the UK.

Why are you obsessed with it getting hotter.

If you’re worried about increased deaths from cold you should be pushing for every possible mitigation and adaptation going. If the AMOC fails we’re going full Labrador-mode every winter.

WhippedCreamPie · 26/07/2026 09:45

Benvenuto · 26/07/2026 09:14

Cars do cause air pollution - nitrogen dioxide is linked to stuff like asthma, cancer etc. Not speculatively - nhs.uk advises asthma sufferers to avoid air pollution. Electric cars are better, but still have particulate pollution.

That’s why ULEZ and similar charges have been introduced and there are now reports of premature deaths in London falling.

We still need to drive cars though. If people are worried about air pollution they can choose to wear a mask or an n95. Their personal choice

Benvenuto · 26/07/2026 09:27

SomethingElse73 · 25/07/2026 19:20

It makes sense to use our resources sensibly and not waste them , but a lot of Net Zero is plain and simple performative nonsense - I work in an industry where every client has to produce a climate report each year, costing an absolute fortune to produce and all which largely say the same thing - it is very clearly a tick box exercise which is making someone very rich.

This is a good point and I also don’t like the use of jargon that is meaningless to people who don’t work in that sector (“net zero” itself being a good example of jargon).

However, this issue isn’t just limited to net zero / climate change - my Council for example produces a lot of documents that are very wordy & full of jargon even though they have lots of residents who speak English as a second language & the there’s also the general issue of low literacy rates (The National Literacy Trust seem to think that 18% of the English* population are functionally illiterate). Documents have also got a lot longer during my lifetime. A move towards more concise documents & more use of plain English would be really helpful re climate change (& many other things).

*I’ve only quoted the English stats as they are from 2024 & the ones for the other three nations are much older. Apparently there isn’t a common definition of basic literacy skills between the four nations which hinders comparisons between nations: this really does seem emblematic of the problems in this area.

Benvenuto · 26/07/2026 09:14

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 19:34

Reports will say lots of things. Boo hoo it's noise. Driving cars also caused air pollution as well. The roads and cars around the airport already cause the pollution.

Cars do cause air pollution - nitrogen dioxide is linked to stuff like asthma, cancer etc. Not speculatively - nhs.uk advises asthma sufferers to avoid air pollution. Electric cars are better, but still have particulate pollution.

That’s why ULEZ and similar charges have been introduced and there are now reports of premature deaths in London falling.

Benvenuto · 26/07/2026 09:01

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:03

They need to stop worrying. Italy was perfectly fine last week.

France and Spain aren’t though. Nor the the people who needed to be evacuated in the Cairngorms.

Twoshoesnewshoes · 26/07/2026 09:00

Because if we don’t then we have given up hope.
we are saying that we will leave the world to burn.
it may well happen anyway, but there is a slither of hope - we owe it to future generations to at least try.

WhippedCreamPie · 26/07/2026 08:55

A "crisis". More people in the UK die due to the cold every year than due to the heat. What impact does destroying our industry and making our own energy prohibitively expensive have when we make up 1% of global emissions and we've massively decarbonised anyway.

Twoshoesnewshoes · 26/07/2026 08:53

@WhippedCreamPie where’s that graphic from?

yes we are in a crisis, read the news, Europe is the fastest heating continent on earth and is currently ravaged by wildfires and drought.
if cost is the main factor making people reluctant to go to renewables then we need to subsidise them, nationalise household renewables providers and investigate the insulation disaster so that it becomes a viable safe and affordable solution.

WhippedCreamPie · 26/07/2026 08:46

DdraigGoch · 26/07/2026 01:03

I tell you what, we'll pay the renewable price for electricity and you pay the fossil fuel-generated price. Deal?

In the morning I will put the washing on hot. The electricity won't cost me a penny - in fact I'll be paid for the electricity I use. This is because the wind will be blowing at the same time as there's plenty of sun, so there is so much electricity that I get paid to waste it. Yay Octopus!

You meanwhile can cough up for importing fossil fuels at the price that various dodgy dictatorships (Russia, Iran, China, the USA...) decide you should pay. Is the Strait of Hormuz open yet?

Edited

Or we can use the local North sea for our gas needs. We use most of it anyway. Use the local supply.

The public doesn't hate Net Zero as much as RW politicians insist they do
MandingoAteMyBaby · 26/07/2026 08:21

You understand this is a crisis, right ?

You realise we have no choice but to act ?

When World War II started, the Royal Air Force had a small number of mainly fabric covered low-powered biplanes. By the time it ended we had huge numbers of 400-500mph aircraft, strategic bombers, trained pilots to fly them and total dominance of our skies.

Because in a crisis you can - and must - make literally anything happen to survive.

DdraigGoch · 26/07/2026 01:03

Binnyforthewin · 24/07/2026 15:38

There is a really easy test. Make the green levies optional. Please who are pro net zero will pay then and those that aren't won't. Then we get real data for who many people care.

Edited

I tell you what, we'll pay the renewable price for electricity and you pay the fossil fuel-generated price. Deal?

In the morning I will put the washing on hot. The electricity won't cost me a penny - in fact I'll be paid for the electricity I use. This is because the wind will be blowing at the same time as there's plenty of sun, so there is so much electricity that I get paid to waste it. Yay Octopus!

You meanwhile can cough up for importing fossil fuels at the price that various dodgy dictatorships (Russia, Iran, China, the USA...) decide you should pay. Is the Strait of Hormuz open yet?

WhippedCreamPie · 26/07/2026 00:59

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 23:05

I think you know very little about the effects of burning fossil fuels in the upper atmosphere. It’s far more than just the GHG emissions.

You can repeat your bogus propaganda all you want, there’s no point engaging with it.

”oh aviation is only a small part of emissions”

”oh drier, hotter conditions aren’t the reason fires are devastating, it’s people lighting them”

”oh china exists so we can all do nothing”

”oh higher capacity trains are impossible”

”oh things can never change”

”we just have to accept our own doom so corporations can continue to make profits”

Full ostrich-mode. No point turning the titanic, the iceberg can’t be moved eh ?

I checked what you said. Commercial airline flights contribute to 3.5% of human caused warming. So short haul flights make around 1% and that's not even accounting for the fact that short-haul flights spend less time in the cold, humid altitudes where persistent contrails form.

Climate change does make the conditions for wildfires worse, but the vast majority are human caused arson.

China emits so much more than us and our impact is tiny.

Turning the volume of short haul flights from flights into Eurostar trains is unfeasible. UK-Europe air travel massively dominates Eurostar capacity.

The Tunnel is not a public asset the governments can just re-engineer. A private company (Getlink) paid for it with private money under a contract that runs until 2086. The contract is very clear on several points:

Getlink operates the Tunnel entirely at its own risk, with no government money or guarantees

It is free to set its own tariffs and commercial policy – normal price-control laws do not apply

The governments are not allowed to intervene in how it runs the business.

The terms of the contract cannot be changed without the prior agreement of both the UK and French governments and Getlink itself

Climate policy or “binding climate limits” is not one of the rare exceptions written into the contract (those are things like war, national defence, or genuine force majeure such as natural disaster). So if the governments tried to force lower access charges or subsidised extra capacity, they would be in breach.

Getlink would take them to arbitration. The governments would then have to pay full compensation for the entire direct loss, including all the profits Getlink would have made for the remaining 60 years of the contract. That is a multi-billion-pound bill that lands on taxpayers.

And even after writing that enormous cheque, you still have the physical bottlenecks – St Pancras can only process a limited number of passengers per hour, and there’s only one UK depot (Temple Mills) that can maintain the special trains needed for the Tunnel. Those limits don’t disappear just because you’ve paid Getlink off.

That’s why this change doesn’t work. It’s not a lack of political will. It’s the actual legal contract protecting a private investment, plus the hard capacity constraints.

How do you expect someone from Aberdeen go to Paris for holiday? What if they have an unwell relative they need to urgently see?

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 23:05

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:58

No response I see! Logic and arguements escape you! Maybe because you live in fantasy world.

Commercial airline flights globally account for 2.5% of global emissions. Short haul makes up 33% of that. So banning all short haul flights means you only tackle 0.8% of emissions. And that's not even that because there will be emissions from the mode of transport they switch to.

Please think critically.

I think you know very little about the effects of burning fossil fuels in the upper atmosphere. It’s far more than just the GHG emissions.

You can repeat your bogus propaganda all you want, there’s no point engaging with it.

”oh aviation is only a small part of emissions”

”oh drier, hotter conditions aren’t the reason fires are devastating, it’s people lighting them”

”oh china exists so we can all do nothing”

”oh higher capacity trains are impossible”

”oh things can never change”

”we just have to accept our own doom so corporations can continue to make profits”

Full ostrich-mode. No point turning the titanic, the iceberg can’t be moved eh ?

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:58

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 22:48

Caught out and regretting it I see.

Nothing to argue with in your posts. You believe nothing can ever change.

Faced with extinction, anything and everything can and will change.

No response I see! Logic and arguements escape you! Maybe because you live in fantasy world.

Commercial airline flights globally account for 2.5% of global emissions. Short haul makes up 33% of that. So banning all short haul flights means you only tackle 0.8% of emissions. And that's not even that because there will be emissions from the mode of transport they switch to.

Please think critically.

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 22:53

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:48

Okay and..if humans weren't setting them off. They could be dealt with a lot easier.

It would be exactly the same. It doesn’t matter what the source of ignition is if the land is parched and tinder dry from prolonged heat stress and absence of rain.

That landscape is turning into literal hell and pyrocumulus faster and more intensely than it otherwise would, regardless of what starts it, and it’s taking your home, your assets, your farm, whatever else is in its path along with it, and that’s happening because climate change created the conditions for any ignition to become a catastrophe instead of an inconvenience.

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 22:48

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:47

Failing to address and criteria the points I see. Because you live in fantasy land.

Caught out and regretting it I see.

Nothing to argue with in your posts. You believe nothing can ever change.

Faced with extinction, anything and everything can and will change.

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:48

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 22:47

Climate change doesn’t start wildfires.

It creates the conditions which make them far more serious, far more devastating, and far more deadly.

Okay and..if humans weren't setting them off. They could be dealt with a lot easier.

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 22:47

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:44

Most of Italy's fires are caused intentionally..if they weren't starting them, the numbers that happens spontaneously would be lower and easier to maintain

Climate change doesn’t start wildfires.

It creates the conditions which make them far more serious, far more devastating, and far more deadly.

WhippedCreamPie · 25/07/2026 22:47

MandingoAteMyBaby · 25/07/2026 22:46

The headings and em-dashes absolutely reek of AI. Have you run out of your own ideas ?

Failing to address and criteria the points I see. Because you live in fantasy land.

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