To think Gill Pharaoh had the ideal end of life

I think it's an apt illustration of the issue that comes with presenting suicide for any reason as a positive thing: It makes suicide a positive thing.

(As for 'helpful contribution' to 'complex issues', given your response to a previous comment of mine was simply "She didn't want them", I'm not sure you can complain.)

"According to data from the National Audit Office (NAO) and the Homecare Association, roughly 40% to 48% of large for-profit home care providers report margins of 5% or less on state-funded work, with average net operating profits hovering near 2%–3%. "

Those profits are very low. Local authorities outsource this work to avoid management costs and all the on-costs involved with employing staff. Sick pay, holiday pay, PPE, recruitment costs and on and on.

Their profit is not the difference between what the care worker is paid and what the agency is paid.

The principle problem with care worker pay is that tax payers won't or can't pay more.

I expect I can sit back now and wait for the predictable "so tax the rich more".

You think that post is an adult and helpful contribution to the discussion of a complex issue in what way, exactly?

I think everyone should have the option to end their life and that money should not be the determining factor. If you don’t agree with euthanasia for yourself, why are you trying to stop others from having access to it. It is not proposed to become compulsory. We have all led different lives and have different life experiences. Why refuse to let someone make a decision about their own end of life. Especially when for their whole time alive 18+ they are completely responsible for every single one of their actions regarding everything, until their end of life which is just left to money, chance and availability of services.

The rates LA rates are enough ( roughly £30 ph), but the private companies keep the vast majority of that and want huge profits rather than a healthy one. The amount the LA customer pays doesn't change if they have 5 hours a week or 15.

Even if there were enough carers available, some people don’t want carers looking after them. I would prefer to die on my own terms than need care. I want to have that choice in the UK (assisted dying) but that’s not going to happen in my lifetime.

The new Bill going through parliament will allow for terminal people with capacity, to ask for it. Despite what can happen sometimes I still think there are a lot of people who are helped on their way with medical overdoses of medications when they are in their last stages.

Well, I suppose reclassifying suicide as a good thing, as many people seem to consider it to be on this thread, will at least save money on suicide prevention. Now people can be happy when their family and friends commit suicide, instead of devastated. Problem solved!

No it's an economic decision made by customers, which include local authorities which don't have enough money to pay more.

Are you hearing the howls of protest at the suggestion from Andy Burnham that every dead person's estate pays £10,000 to finance care?

I agree its a hard job but it can also be family friendly and if it was paid well to reflect the intensity, it could be a valid career choice.

She didn't want them.

Yes it is. Why is that considered so wrong? It would be great if you could just “go to sleep” via injection or taking a pill when you’ve had enough of living.

A lot of people don’t want to become carers. It’s a hard job and heavy workload, with carers supporting patients with increasingly complex, multiple, and long-term health conditions. Even if the pay was better there would still be a shortage.

Nobody is stopping anyone going off and killing themselves and never have done. I think this is about asking to be 'put to sleep' via an injection when you ask for it.

Because it isn't a life until it is born, which is why the law is different.

If I had decided to kill myself I would be extremely “pissed off” if someone tried to revive me. It’s giving people the choice to decide for themselves when they want to die.

I can see it from both sides.

I’m mid/50s and have a few health conditions that are already impactful. I think I’d rather go at 75 than drag on until mid-80s in poor health, although it seems Pharaoh was scared of what might happen rather than what was happening.

My mum died at 71 (from cancer), and she was nowhere near ‘elderly’. She was still working part-time, volunteered, was socially active etc.

75 may have been elderly a generation ago, but now it’s seen as young to die, over 80 I’d say was elderly. I prefer ‘senior citizen’ - it’s more respectful.

There wouldn't be a shortage of carers if we paid them properly. Thats an economic decision made by private companies.

I’m in favour for whatever reason. It’s worse to stay alive and suffer if all you want to do is die. It’s always been about choice for me.

This is what I feel. Euthanasia IS like abortion in that if you’re in favour of it you should be in favour whatever the reason. What if Gill Pharaoh had been in her50s with teenage children? Would anyone still be saying “yay, good for her”?

@Ihatehottubs
It really annoys me too. It’s about giving people the choice to end their life when they want to. Some people reach a point where they’ve had enough of living. Just because other people can’t understand that, doesn’t mean that assisted dying shouldn’t be legal. We all have our own unique feelings and experiences of life.

On an individual level, that might make sense. But on a societal level, normalising killing oneself as a healthy and sensible choice, even if one is fit and healthy, or (as in other cases) when one is depressed and unhappy, can have all sorts of potential negative repercussions.

After all, doesn't normalising euthanasia mean that we should stop trying to prevent most suicides, even if they're depressed (as long as the person is competent), and instead offer the person euthanasia?

On a personal level I don't really care, but on an ethical level, it seems like it being normalised could create a potentially dangerous shift in the way we view and value the continuance of life.

I am about as far from being “liberal left” as possible. I am however, still deeply disturbed by the horrific deaths suffered by some of my loved ones, some very young (20s). I do not want to die like that. At all. It is barbaric, and traumatic for all involved. For you to be so dismissive of people who have witnessed that and write them off as “liberal left” is narrow minded at best.

Why is it such a problem for you that someone chose to end their life before they got too old? Her rationale seems very sensible to me.

I would welcome it if it was a requirement for dementia. There is a HUGE shortage of carers in the UK which is only getting worse. You can’t magically conjure up carers out of thin air!! I never want to have to rely on carers looking after me.